Flair Country
08-24-2007, 07:23 PM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0708/23/ng.01.html
"Congress Deadline for WWE Report Approaches
Aired August 23, 2007 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND
MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Breaking news in the case of major superstar
WWE wrestler 40-year-old Chris Benoit, his entire family found dead in
their upscale gated community, Atlanta suburbs. Toxicology reveals a
powerful mix of anabolic steroids and other drugs. Now, just weeks after
the death of Benoit and his family, three more pro wrestlers turn up
dead.
Tonight, the most successful woman in U.S. pro wrestling history, Chyna,
wrestling superstar Joanne Laurer is with us. Steroids, the sudden
deaths (ph) on a mounting list of pro wrestlers dead by age 50, and now
Congress heats up. WWE must respond to Congress by tomorrow.
And tonight: Federal prosecutors granting a superseding indictment,
adding more formal charges against a doctor to the wrestling stars, Dr.
Phil Astin III, the doctor now blaming a hormone disorder for of the
huge doses of steroids he prescribed to superstar Benoit. Stunning
results, 10 times the normal levels of testosterone found in Benoit`s
body at the time of his death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got all these wrestlers dying, you know, from
a combination of painkillers, prolonged steroid usage and alcohol,
recreational drugs, and nothing has been done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re dying. Please, something`s got to be done!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are all these wrestlers dying? And we know what
they`re dying from, and nothing is being done to clean up the sport.
There is no investigation. There is no congressional oversight. There`s
nothing going on. And that to me is more tragic than the deaths
themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Broadway and Hollywood were dying like we`re
dying, something would be done. Remember, 104 wrestlers in 10 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with
us tonight.
First tonight, former wrestling superstar Joanie "Chyna" Laurer on
drugs, death and pro wrestling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOANIE "CHYNA" LAURER, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: I knew Chris Benoit quite
well, I would say. I wrestled with him for many years. And also, we have
similar backgrounds in technical training as far as being trained with
New Japan professional wrestling.
My first reaction when I heard that Chris had killed his wife and his
son and himself was in one sense kind of a shock that it was him.
Wrestling is, of course, entertainment. It`s its own entity. And you
can`t simply deny that death after death after death after death that
something is wrong. And I can`t tell you exactly, therefore, I can`t
tell you what my hopes would be because I can`t tell you what the answer
is. Luckily, I`m not the judge. But I can tell you that years ago, I
walked away from it, and that`s for a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, with us a real superstar in the wrestling industry. You
know her as Chyna. Her real name, Joanie Laurer. Here she is.
Since Benoit`s death, shocking death in his own home, his multi-
million-dollar home in the Atlanta suburbs -- he was found dead, along
with his wife and his 7-year-old little boy. It focused so much
attention on the wrestling industry, and now we learn steroids are
seemingly routine.
Chyna, tell me, first of all, how did you get into wrestling? I mean,
it`s like the mind doesn`t get this beautiful woman as a wrestler, a pro
wrestler.
LAURER: I`m still getting it just now, Nancy, even many years later. I
originally wanted to be in the movies. I wanted to be a movie star. I
wanted to be on MTV. And I just happened to be involved in athletics at
a very early age. I hung out at gyms after school, and it was kind of
recreational for me, so I began developing my body at the age of 14, 15
years old.
GRACE: Like a body builder.
LAURER: Correct. Yes. It was a time when women were starting to do
aerobics and whatnot, but I was hanging out with, you know, the male
crowd in the gyms after school. So that got my interests perked in
lifting weights, and thereafter, I learned that I was starting to sculpt
my body. So I would go out for commercials and different television
roles, but obviously, I didn`t see myself as this kind of developed girl
or woman, so...
GRACE: Sculpted, really sculpted. How many hours a day would you spend
in the gym to look the way you did at the height of your wrestling
career?
Hey, everybody, Chyna is with us. We`re about to get to the deadline
with Congress and the WWE. WWE must answer by tomorrow about complaints
from Capitol Hill. The clock is ticking on the WWE. We`ll see what
they`ve got to say.
But we are taking your calls. Here with me, Chyna, former WWE superstar.
Her real name, Joanie Laurer. Go ahead.
LAURER: Well, I was just saying that I would spend -- let`s see, school
would end about 3:00 or 4:00 for me, and I would do after-school
intramurals and -- which I was never good at any sport, but I...
GRACE: Which sport?
LAURER: ... would do every...
(CROSSTALK)
LAURER: Yes, any sport that was available to me. I was horrible at all
of them. And then I would go to the gyms, where I would swim, lift
weights, feel like I was dancing with all of the aerobics classes. And I
was very self-competitive. I pushed myself with push-ups, sit-ups, you
know, all of the -- you know, the hard-core exercises.
GRACE: So how many years...
LAURER: Until 10:00 or 11:00 at night.
GRACE: For you to look -- 10:00 or 11:00 o`clock at night?
LAURER: Yes, 10 hours.
GRACE: You would spend hours in the gym every day.
LAURER: That was my life.
GRACE: How did you first end up stepping into a wrestling ring?
LAURER: I was watching -- I came in one night from the gym, and my
sister was watching it on television.
GRACE: Watching what?
LAURER: Wrestling.
GRACE: OK.
LAURER: And I looked over. And I didn`t really know anything about it. I
mean, I`d heard of wrestling, obviously, like everybody in the world,
but I didn`t know the specifics or the specific characters or athletes.
And I looked over and I started chuckling to myself. And I said, Oh, I
could do that. I would be perfect. I would fit the mold for that. I`m
going to be a wrestler.
And I started traveling to go see shows. I started getting to know
people in the industry, whoever I could. I started calling. There wasn`t
a local wrestling school. You know, I didn`t know this, that they even
existed. But I somehow worked my way into the organization. And that`s
what I would say, once I was hired, I really started learning.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) I`m comparing to you -- I think about the first time
I ever tried a case, first time I ever struck a jury. What was it like
the first time you went in a ring for a professional wrestling bout? Do
you remember?
LAURER: I do. It was -- I don`t -- I had no idea what was coming my way.
And the funny part, Nancy, you mentioned is that, in my mind, I had
always wanted to be -- I always wanted to be the supermodel, you know?
But I was this big girl, and so I viewed it as playing a role.
GRACE: How tall are you?
LAURER: Five-ten. So I viewed it as playing a role when I was hired for
wrestling, and that was a role to me. I just happened to be...
GRACE: You know, you`ve got...
LAURER: ... an athlete.
GRACE: ... about 10 inches, but I think I got about (INAUDIBLE) a few
pounds on you.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. Go ahead.
LAURER: You`d whip my butt, Nancy. It was...
GRACE: First time in the ring?
LAURER: I loved it.
GRACE: Did you win?
LAURER: I was -- actually, I started off as a bodyguard, manager type of
role, so I really didn`t do much for the first year.
GRACE: Do you think...
LAURER: I was a presence, more than anything.
GRACE: Did you ever wrestle a man?
LAURER: That`s all I really did, was I -- what I was known for, the
first female to really...
GRACE: And won.
LAURER: ... have the strength and...
GRACE: And won.
LAURER: ... and the demeanor -- and won many times.
GRACE: Many, many times.
LAURER: Many times.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Justin in Oklahoma. Hi, Justin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m doing good.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, what is Chyna`s reaction to what has
happened with Chris Benoit`s death?
GRACE: You know what, Justin? Hold on one moment. Before we go to her on
that, let`s get the very latest on what is happening. As you know,
Justin in Oklahoma, deadline tomorrow. The clock is ticking. Capitol
Hill wants answers as to how many and why so many pro wrestlers are
dying before 50.
Hey, Elizabeth, let`s run that list of how many pro wrestlers have died
before their time. It is incredible!
Out to Dave Meltzer with Wrestlingobserver.com and friend of Chris
Benoit. Dave, tell me about the very latest regarding the investigation
into these deaths.
DAVE MELTZER, WRESTLINGOBSERVER.COM: I don`t know that there`s really
anything new, at this point. You know, there`s two different Senate
committees working on the subject. They`ve subpoenaed other wrestling
companies for records that probably don`t exist. They`ve subpoenaed WWE
for records that do exist. And what happens from there, I mean, you
know, time will tell.
GRACE: Bryan Alvarez with Figurefouronline.com, what else can you tell
us?
BRYAN ALVAREZ, FIGUREFOURONLINE.COM: WWE actually sent a response to
Congress last week. It was a very conciliatory letter. They just
basically said, Here`s the information. We`re going to send you our
wellness policy. If you want more information...
GRACE: Their wellness policy?
ALVAREZ: Their wellness policy.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Bryan Alvarez, I know you`re just giving me the
facts, but -- Chyna, you`re on cross now. How many drug tests did you
ever take with the WWE?
LAURER: Not one.
GRACE: OK, now, what were you saying about that wellness policy?
ALVAREZ: WWE does, in fact, have a wellness policy. It may not be a good
policy, but they`ve got a policy. They`re going to send that. They`ve
got information about Dr. Astin -- not Dr. Astin, but Dr. Black. They`ve
recommended if you have any questions about this, you should talk to
him. And basically just saying, We`re going to give you everything we
have. And this is a third party that is in charge of testing, so if you
have any questions about that, you should talk to him.
GRACE: There are two separate Congressional inquiries going forward as
we speak. In less than 24 hours, the WWE is set to answer some of the
questions Capitol Hill has posed to them.
Back out to the lines. Everyone, with me, a real wrestling superstar.
Her name, Chyna, as you know her. Her real name, Joanie Laurer.
Out to the lines. Ricky in Tennessee. Hi, Ricky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty good. You doing OK?
GRACE: I`m hanging in there. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Not to say I`m uncaring, but with everything else
in going on in the country with the war and everything, why does
Congress feel like they need to get involved with professional wrestling
and baseball players doing steroids?
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Chris Cruise, worked for Vince McMahon,
former wrestling play-by-play announcer. And Ricky, believe me, my
father is a veteran of the world war. We certainly are not comparing any
of this to the deaths over in Iraq or any other theater in the world.
But this is a real concern. Explain, Chris.
CHRIS CRUISE, FORMER PRO WRESTLING ANNOUNCER: Nancy, the members of
Congress and the staff that I`ve spoken with have dealt with that issue.
They believe that this is a life-or-death issue. Professional wrestlers
are dying, but not just that pro wrestlers are dying, but the children
who are watching pro wrestlers are going to grow up and they`re going to
take steroids or human growth hormone and they`re going to die, as well.
So If you`re going to use that argument that there are better things to
do with Congress`s time, Congress has an answer, and they believe that
this is totally appropriate for them to investigate.
GRACE: And I want to go to Marc Mero, former WWE superstar himself.
Explain, Marc.
MARC MERO, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: There`s a trick-down effect that one
million kids between 6th grade and 12th grade are now using anabolic
steroids. And that`s something that I think that -- one of the reasons
why WWE and the wrestling world has got to take notice of what`s
happening out there.
GRACE: To Bryan Alvarez, Figurefouronline.com. Tell me about the latest
deaths. Three deaths among pro wrestlers have happened since Benoit`s
death.
ALVAREZ: Well, the latest is Brian Adams, who worked with WWE in the
early `90s, New Japan, WCW, WWE, a couple of years ago as the "Kronik"
tag team. He just passed away. He was in his early 40s. And we don`t
have any real information yet. We`re waiting for toxicology reports to
come back, as is almost always the case in these deaths. But it`s just
another one in a long list.
GRACE: You know, our caller, Ricky in Tennessee, was asking why this was
taking so much attention. Take a listen to this. Of the wrestlers,
nearly 70 dead in just 10 years, all before age 50. That would equal, if
you compare it to other major sports, to 435 NFL dead, to 186 baseball
players dead. Now, you know, maybe I`m crazy, but to me, that means that
there is a hard-core problem.
Back to Chyna. Why is it -- I mean, I`ve got my own theory. People - - a
lot of people look down their nose at wrestling. They don`t think it`s a
pure sport. All right. You know what? Fine. But my question is, how long
do we stand by and watch people drop like flies, whether we like their
sport or we don`t like their sport.
When you heard about Benoit, what was your immediate reaction?
LAURER: I was angered. And that`s a really good question, Nancy, and
maybe you can help me explain this in a proper manner, is that whether
people from the outside looking in are turning their nose up or down at
it, there`s some -- I`m coming from the inside out. And the fans are so
wonderful. They`re so dedicated. They`re so loyal. But at the same time,
they can be extremely venomous.
What bothers me is that venomous action on something that`s right in
front of the world`s faces, that there is something wrong. There`s death
after death after death, and the people that are listed are people I`ve
known, I don`t even know their real name. It`s really a convoluted
issue. And it`s -- you know, it`s not something that you should have to
take sides over and be liked or disliked or judged for that. It`s
happening. There are facts.
GRACE: So much is happening within the case of Benoit. As you know a
superseding or an additional indictment is being handed down by the
feds, adding charges to the doctor to the wrestling stars Phil Astin.
Tomorrow, Congress waiting on a response -- the deadline is 5:00 PM --
from the WWE.
And in the middle of all this, there is a legal battle going on for
Benoit`s millions. It`s a very complicated legal question. Bryan
Alvarez, who`s fighting who over the Benoit millions?
ALVAREZ: Well, it`s basically the Benoit family versus Nancy Benoit`s
family, Chris Benoit`s versus Nancy`s. And the way that it works is
there`s a "slayer statute" in Georgia which says the murderer, his
family cannot get his -- basically, inherit his fortune. And the
situation is, if Nancy Benoit died first, she didn`t have a will, so her
estate would flow to Daniel and Daniel`s heirs, which would be Chris
Benoit`s other two children in Canada, they would end up getting the
estate. If Daniel died first, then the Nancy Benoit family is going to
get the estate. And of course, the coroner said that Daniel passed away
after Nancy. So right now, it`s going to be a very tough battle for the
Nancy Benoit family to try to get it switched around.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Richard Herman out
of New York, Rachel Kugel out of New York, Eleanor Dixon out of Atlanta.
First of all to you, Rachel Kugel. The legal ramifications of the fight
over Benoit`s millions -- it really all boils down to the medical
examiner, who died first. But don`t you think the other side will bring
in their own specialists?
RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. I mean, actually, this could come
out to a whole trial. I mean, you could have a whole trial on this issue
as to who died first, if they want to get to that point. It could be
wild and a battle of the experts in an estate case.
GRACE: It will be a battle.
Out to the lines. Carlos in Florida. Hi, Carlos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear? What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is for Chyna. While wrestlers -- during
her time in WWE, while wrestlers were taking a break from being active
on the roster, did Vince McMahon go out of his way to make sure that his
wrestlers were getting tested at all?
GRACE: Good question.
LAURER: Well, first of all, no. And second of all, you weren`t taking a
break from the roster unless you were hurt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURER: You can`t simply deny that death after death after death after
death that something is wrong. Most people who have -- you know, have
lived and died in that ring. And I believe that there`s a responsibility
there that`s not OK because it doesn`t happen anywhere else in any other
sport or television or movies or in any other industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Three more dead bodies since the death of superstar Chris Benoit,
superstar in the wrestling ring. And what`s being done about it? Well,
Congress is set now to have two different subcommittee hearings on the
increasing numbers of deaths within the wrestling ring.
With me tonight, a wrestling superstar, Chyna. Joanie Laurer is with us,
speaking out about drugs and death in pro wrestling.
Out to the lines. Melissa in Indiana. Hi, Melissa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to ask Joanie if she felt any pressure
from the WWE to change her appearance because it changed drastically
from when she first started and when she left.
LAURER: Yes. Good question. There was a little bit of pressure. I came
into the World Wrestling Federation as kind of a monster, you know,
presence, and I had to be to make that role believable. And however, you
know, I always wanted to be much more feminine, and you know, wear the
-- have the nice hair and the -- you know, the big boobs and the whole
look that was opposite of the role that I played. So yes, there was
pressure to -- although inevitably, I did this because I had to for me.
So the look did change.
GRACE: You know, your look has changed immensely. I`m just taking a look
at you in various shots. Did you ever do steroids to look that cut (ph)?
LAURER: No, I did not, which still to this day -- it`s taken so many
years later to -- I shouldn`t have to say prove that, but understandably
(INAUDIBLE) but luckily, I never did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The foolishness of professional wrestling degrades
the actual people involved in it. These are really human beings, after
all, and we really are people with families and with loved ones and
mothers and fathers, but yet we are treated almost like circus animals
in the professional wrestling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The clock is ticking, the WWE expected to respond to Congress, to
Waxman, tomorrow at 5:00 PM.
Here on the set with me, a real superstar. You know her as Chyna. This
is Joanie Laurer, WWE superstar. Was it common to see drugs in the
locker room?
LAURER: It was common to see drugs everywhere, Nancy.
GRACE: Explain.
LAURER: Well, you know, you`re talking about a multitude of different
kind of drugs, as well. So I mean, drugs were prevalent everywhere while
- - professionally, I`ll say, while we were, you know, working, before
working, after working, in social settings.
GRACE: What, to deal with pain, steroids, what?
LAURER: All of the above. Every facet of -- you know, it went from pain
tolerance to steroids to a social level. So it was very confusing for me
most of the time, and I think I allowed it to happen most of the time
around me because I didn`t know any different. So that (INAUDIBLE) was
very convoluted or it crossed between social and pain and esthetically.
It was very confusing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINCE MCMAHON, WWE OWNER: Speaking of the United States of America, do
you know what I hold in my hand, coach? I hold two different letters
from Congress, two different congressional committees want to
investigate the WWE at the same time. Does that make any sense to you
whatsoever? None. I mean, you might as well have Barney Fife from the
old "Andy Griffith" show. Now, Barney could do a complete investigation.
I mean, why do we need a congressional committee, much less two, to
investigate WWE? That makes no sense whatsoever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As much as I give them hell, I don`t believe that I would make
fun of a congressional hearing. That was Mr. Vince McMahon on the WWE
"Monday Night Raw" a few weeks ago in a skit mocking the congressional
hearings. Not that I think Congress was watching -- I believe it was
11:30 at night -- but their aides probably told them about it. I don`t
think that was such a great idea.
Out to the lines, Matthew in Pennsylvania. Hi, Matthew.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
CALLER: I just have a question for Chyna. What do you think the
percentages of people using steroids currently in the WWE?
JOANIE "CHYNA" LAURER, WRESTLING STAR: Oh, I can only guess. And what I
would -- my hypothesis would be the same as it was, which was pretty
much everyone. I mean, obviously with the same cyclical number of deaths
and behavior, nothing`s changed from what I see.
GRACE: Do you think any of these deaths are having any effect on steroid
use?
LAURER: No, I don`t.
GRACE: Out to Lori in Florida. Hi, Lori.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, love you. My question is for your pro wrestlers. And
what do you think about what`s advertised as legal steroids, as dietary
supplements and testosterone boosters, containing Tribulus terrestris
and syonone vega extract (ph)? And are they as dangerous as actual
steroids?
GRACE: OK, first of all, let`s throw that to Dr. William Morrone,
medical examiner, pathologist out of Madison Heights, Michigan --
Doctor?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: They`re not the same thing as
true steroids. They can be dangerous for other reasons. But what was
dangerous was the dihydroepiandosterone (ph), and that was removed from
the market. And that was a food supplement. The only way you can get
real steroids, control-free substance steroids, is with a prescription.
The other stuff is fraud.
GRACE: What about it, Chyna?
LAURER: Nancy, their heads are popping off of their bodies. Their hearts
are exploding. They`re having heart attacks. By the age of 35, the
majority of people that I ever worked with are dead. Their bodies change
overnight, something that an average person would be half the size after
years and years and years of athletic training.
GRACE: To you Marc Mero, weigh in.
MARC MERO, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: Well, to four family members of
wrestlers that have currently died, two today and two yesterday. And
what Vince McMahon did on "Monday Night Raw" by making light of the
congressional hearings was absurd and it`s sad, because his value
between reality and fantasy is blurred right now. And I`m very sad to
see this, and the families are appalled by this.
And I tell you something, something has got to be done, because too many
of the people I`ve wrestled against, that Chyna`s wrestled with, 27 are
dead, and something needs to be done. And I`m just getting tired of it.
That`s why we`re taking our program across the nation, speaking at
schools through education and awareness.
GRACE: I want to go out to Bethany Marshall, psychotherapist and author.
Bethany, why is it that, if this were some other sport, everyone would
be standing on their heads. But because it`s wrestling, it seems like it
doesn`t matter?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, it seems to me to be a little
like gladiator fights in ancient Rome. In gladiator fights, someone
always died, right?
Also, I think in the psyche of the public, wrestlers are cartoon
characters, whereas our baseball players and football players, they are
our national heroes. I mean, what mom says to their kid, "When you grow
up, I want you to be a wrestler"? Mickey Mouse died so many times, but,
of course, he`s always revived. He falls off the cliff. He gets hit in
the head, and he still lives. So I think, in the eyes of the public,
these wrestlers are like cartoon characters, and we don`t get care
enough about them.
GRACE: That`s a real interesting take on it. I want to ask our lawyers,
Richard Herman, Rachel Kugel, Eleanor Dixon, out to you, Richard Herman,
we`re still waiting on that federal superseding indictment against the
doctor to the stars, Phil Astin. What`s the holdup?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I`ll tell you, this
indictment is going to come down. This doctor is in hot water. If he`s
prescribing medications without examining these patients, if he doesn`t
have a medical basis for these prescriptions, if they`re just to make
these people look like Adonises, this guy is going to get convicted.
He`s going to go down, Nancy.
GRACE: What about it, Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, you know what happens when the feds do
a superseding indictment. It means they have more evidence. It means
they`re going to put more into the indictment, and that means they have
a pretty good case on the doctor. So I agree. I expect he`s going to be
charged with a lot more.
GRACE: Eleanor, why are the feds so slow?
DIXON: I don`t know.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No offense to the feds. The last thing I need is the tax man
looking at me. But they`re slow. I used to be a fed. They are slow.
DIXON: Well, they`re going to make their case stick from the very
beginning when it`s indicted, so they`re going to get all their
evidence, everything they can up front and have the strongest case
possible. So sometimes they move a little slower. And let`s face it,
Nancy, sometimes they don`t have as many cases as we do in the state
system.
GRACE: And, bottom line, they`re not gunslingers like state prosecutors,
where you get a file and you may have to go to trial that afternoon.
That`s not the way the feds work it.
I want to go back to Mr. William Morrone. Now the doctor is blaming the
whole overdose, the alleged overdose of steroids, on some kind of a
hormonal problem that Benoit had. It sounds crazy to me. What do you
make of it?
MORRONE: How well did he document his records? What kind of tests did he
do to prove that there was a primary or a secondary hormonal failure?
And then, in the follow-up, was he testing to see he was getting the
right amount of steroids, or was it a clue to abuse, not just
replacement? Those are really important questions.
GRACE: Response, Chyna?
LAURER: Nancy, in general, any medical condition that a wrestler would
have, such as torn muscles or any other medical conditions, why aren`t
people looked at medically for injuries or problems rather than pumping
their bodies full of steroids? Is this a medical condition? It sounds
like addict behavior to me to blame it on a hormonal growth problem.
GRACE: Hormonal problem.
LAURER: How many years later?
GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense, Morrone, that Benoit would have a
hormonal problem and the...
MORRONE: You`ve got to let me answer that.
GRACE: ... and the result would be anabolic steroids.
MORRONE: The answer is previous use of anabolic steroids have caused
testicular failure. Because of the abuse, it shuts off the hormone
feedback in the brain, and the only way to get your male hormones back
is supplemental replacement. That`s what`s important.
GRACE: I see.
To Jordan in Pennsylvania. Hi, Jordan.
CALLER: Hi, how are you doing? I was just curious to know, it has been
said that wrestling is a theatrical or entertaining nature. I`m just
wondering, is there some consensus as to why there`s such a
proliferation of these performance enhancers?
GRACE: Great question. Chyna?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re not in the ring.
LAURER: Well, and obviously the characters are larger-than-life
characters, so your physique is going to have a grand factor of being a
larger-than-life character.
GRACE: Or you`ll never make it in the ring. What about it, Chris Cruise?
CHRIS CRUISE, SPORTS ANNOUNCER: McMahon has a body fetish. He wants
people who are not just big, but are cut. And Vince McMahon and his
staff, they`re only going to hire and push those guys who are `roided,
who are not just huge, but are cut.
The only way to get to that point, Nancy, is with steroids or with human
growth hormone. And I`ve got a question: Where the heck is the Screen
Actors Guild? Where`s the stuntman`s union? Who is taking care of these
professional wrestlers who are stepping up to take care of it? This
problem is not going to be solved unless there`s a union. And the
problem is not going to be solved unless there`s a national commission
that`s got the power to suspend, that`s got the power to do random drug
testing.
I applaud you for your efforts, but we need a union, and we need a
national commission. And in terms it was Congress listening on that
Barney Fife issue? I can assure you, he was. Congress was, I beg your
pardon.
GRACE: To Dave Meltzer, it`s hard for me to believe that McMahon
pooh-poohed Congress and that that all that they have sent to support
themselves is their wellness policy.
DAVE MELTZER, WRESTLINGOBSERVER.COM: Well, they`re going to send their
drug-testing records to Congress. I think they already sent it to one
committee last week. I think that Vince -- one of the problems with
Vince is that he`s surrounded by people who -- they live in kind of a
wrestling bubble. And what happens is they -- Vince, go give them hell.
Vince, don`t back down.
So he does these things on television. And then he can go and say, "Hey,
it was only for television entertainment." But it was -- you know, I
watched it and I just thought, what are you doing?
GRACE: Final thought, Chyna?
LAURER: My final thought is that Vince is a grown man with a billion-
dollar company and an entertainment industry worldwide. So that`s
malarkey. But to Marc Mero, big kiss to you. We are doing this because
we love these guys and we care about these guys and we love where we`ve
been and what we do now. And I`m very proud of that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"CONAN," FORMER PRO WRESTLER: WWE educated the fans that, you know, the
big physiques is what were going to be the big moneymakers. When I was
growing up and I was watching wrestling, it wasn`t based on big
physiques like it is now. But when I first got into the business, you
know, everybody was on the juice or on steroids. And to make money, you
had to be on the juice. That`s basically it.
Our industry, not only is it rife with racism and sexism, but we are
exploited, you know, in preposterous proportions. And I`ll give you an
example. Not only do we not have no pension or retirement or a union, do
you know that, when we go on the road, we have to pay for our own hotel,
we have to pay for our own transportation from the airport to the hotel?
I mean, what other athlete does that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Former pro wrestler Conan speaking out. He is suffering tonight
after a kidney transplant.
To Dave Meltzer, how is he?
MELTZER: Better. He was in the hospital until a couple of days ago. And
his body was -- for a while there, they feared that he was going to lose
the kidney because his body was rejecting it, but he was given heavy,
heavy dosages of anti-rejection drugs and was finally able to leave the
hospital. But he`s weak. And he was fighting for his life for the last
couple of weeks.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, what would years of anabolic steroids do to the
chances of you surviving a kidney transplant?
MORRONE: They`d make it really difficult. The long-term consequences of
disease affect that area as well as cardiovascular and put you at heart
risk, too.
GRACE: Bryan Alvarez, again, I want to throw this to you. I`m really
surprised McMahon would make fun of the congressional hearings on air
and then, asked to respond to Congress, to just send their wellness
policy. I mean, here`s Chyna sitting right here who never took a single
drug test the whole time she was with WWE.
BRYAN ALVAREZ, FIGUREFOURONLINE.COM: Well, two things. First off, he was
even dumber because he was talking about the IRS auditing him, as well.
And I wouldn`t mess with the IRS.
GRACE: Oh, no, no. Don`t. Don`t say anything about them.
ALVAREZ: But I do want to say one thing, that a couple of weeks after
Chris Benoit died, he did call a meeting, and it was basically a "say no
to drugs" meeting. And he told everybody to get off everything. And
whether you believe that everybody got off everything...
GRACE: Just say no? That? The just say no?
ALVAREZ: Just say no to drugs. But if you watch the television...
GRACE: I can`t believe he even said that with a straight face. Just say
no?
ALVAREZ: Just say no to drugs.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I`ll never forget the first time I saw this
lady, beautiful stockbroker come into the courtroom. And she had been
addicted to drugs. She lost everything, husband, family, home,
stockbroker`s license, everything. You think she wanted to? You think
somebody never said, "Just say no, no, don`t do it anymore"? Of course
people told her no.
You know, we were talking about the people that you have seen drop dead
in the industry. Right before Owen Hart died, you spoke to him. What
happened?
LAURER: Yes, I did. Owen was going to do an entrance from the ceiling,
kind of a superhero type of entrance, and he was nervous about doing it.
And there was something about the safety harness, where Owen was talking
about they didn`t have enough time to put the extra safety harness on
for the b roll. So there wasn`t enough time for him to be properly
harnessed in. And, you know, I never would have imagined that he -- I
had been in a harness many times for other shows, as well. I couldn`t
imagine -- I know the feeling of nerves, but who would have known that
he would have fallen out of the ceiling?
GRACE: What did say right before he went in the ring?
LAURER: He didn`t really say anything. It was just -- you could see the
nerves. I mean, anybody being lowered from that height, it`s a nerve-
racking experience to be that high up anyway.
GRACE: Do you think wrestlers should be role models?
LAURER: I think that they are role models, and that`s one of my big
issues with this.
GRACE: Because?
LAURER: Because people who are not wrestling, which are few and far
between -- I can name a couple of them -- they`re not the heroes. The
ones who live and died and lived that life are the heroes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The foolishness of professional wrestling degrades
the actual people who are involved in it. These are really human beings,
after all, and we really are people with families and with loved ones
and mothers and fathers, but yet we`re treated as almost like circus
animals in the professional wrestling world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s see what Congress will really do. Deadline tomorrow, 5:00
sharp in the afternoon, for the WWE to answer Congress`s questions to
Waxman.
Very quickly, Eleanor Dixon, the only way I believe that the abuse of
steroids within wrestling will end is to go after the doctors. That`s
just what I think. Will Astin go down?
DIXON: I think he will, Nancy. And think of it this way. If he was
peddling cocaine and was a drug trafficker, we would go after him with a
vengeance. This is the same thing: He`s a drug pusher. We need to go
after him.
GRACE: He`s been called a drug pusher in a $1,000 suit, so we`ll just
see what happens in court. Of course, not proven guilty yet. Very
quickly, T.J. in California, what`s your question?
CALLER: My question is for Chyna. What`s the peer pressure between other
wrestlers and, say, herself to take steroids?
GRACE: Oh, good question.
LAURER: Well, I would say that, you know, the majority of guys there,
all of them really, have a passion for this business, you know? They
love it. They eat it, sleep it, breathe it, you know? So to be a part of
it, you have to do -- to be there, you have to do what everyone else
does.
GRACE: To Katie in Missouri. Katie?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, love you.
GRACE: Thank you, love.
CALLER: My question is for Chyna. Do you think that steroids plays any
part of a role for the female wrestlers?
LAURER: No, I don`t. And there aren`t that many female wrestlers, as
there shouldn`t be, I agree, I think.
GRACE: You know what? I`m glad to hear it.
With me tonight, a real superstar, Jenny Laurer, aka Chyna.
Thank you for being with us and inviting us into your home. Thank you to
Chyna. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good
night, friend.
END"
Gerweck
"Congress Deadline for WWE Report Approaches
Aired August 23, 2007 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND
MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Breaking news in the case of major superstar
WWE wrestler 40-year-old Chris Benoit, his entire family found dead in
their upscale gated community, Atlanta suburbs. Toxicology reveals a
powerful mix of anabolic steroids and other drugs. Now, just weeks after
the death of Benoit and his family, three more pro wrestlers turn up
dead.
Tonight, the most successful woman in U.S. pro wrestling history, Chyna,
wrestling superstar Joanne Laurer is with us. Steroids, the sudden
deaths (ph) on a mounting list of pro wrestlers dead by age 50, and now
Congress heats up. WWE must respond to Congress by tomorrow.
And tonight: Federal prosecutors granting a superseding indictment,
adding more formal charges against a doctor to the wrestling stars, Dr.
Phil Astin III, the doctor now blaming a hormone disorder for of the
huge doses of steroids he prescribed to superstar Benoit. Stunning
results, 10 times the normal levels of testosterone found in Benoit`s
body at the time of his death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got all these wrestlers dying, you know, from
a combination of painkillers, prolonged steroid usage and alcohol,
recreational drugs, and nothing has been done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re dying. Please, something`s got to be done!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are all these wrestlers dying? And we know what
they`re dying from, and nothing is being done to clean up the sport.
There is no investigation. There is no congressional oversight. There`s
nothing going on. And that to me is more tragic than the deaths
themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Broadway and Hollywood were dying like we`re
dying, something would be done. Remember, 104 wrestlers in 10 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with
us tonight.
First tonight, former wrestling superstar Joanie "Chyna" Laurer on
drugs, death and pro wrestling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOANIE "CHYNA" LAURER, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: I knew Chris Benoit quite
well, I would say. I wrestled with him for many years. And also, we have
similar backgrounds in technical training as far as being trained with
New Japan professional wrestling.
My first reaction when I heard that Chris had killed his wife and his
son and himself was in one sense kind of a shock that it was him.
Wrestling is, of course, entertainment. It`s its own entity. And you
can`t simply deny that death after death after death after death that
something is wrong. And I can`t tell you exactly, therefore, I can`t
tell you what my hopes would be because I can`t tell you what the answer
is. Luckily, I`m not the judge. But I can tell you that years ago, I
walked away from it, and that`s for a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, with us a real superstar in the wrestling industry. You
know her as Chyna. Her real name, Joanie Laurer. Here she is.
Since Benoit`s death, shocking death in his own home, his multi-
million-dollar home in the Atlanta suburbs -- he was found dead, along
with his wife and his 7-year-old little boy. It focused so much
attention on the wrestling industry, and now we learn steroids are
seemingly routine.
Chyna, tell me, first of all, how did you get into wrestling? I mean,
it`s like the mind doesn`t get this beautiful woman as a wrestler, a pro
wrestler.
LAURER: I`m still getting it just now, Nancy, even many years later. I
originally wanted to be in the movies. I wanted to be a movie star. I
wanted to be on MTV. And I just happened to be involved in athletics at
a very early age. I hung out at gyms after school, and it was kind of
recreational for me, so I began developing my body at the age of 14, 15
years old.
GRACE: Like a body builder.
LAURER: Correct. Yes. It was a time when women were starting to do
aerobics and whatnot, but I was hanging out with, you know, the male
crowd in the gyms after school. So that got my interests perked in
lifting weights, and thereafter, I learned that I was starting to sculpt
my body. So I would go out for commercials and different television
roles, but obviously, I didn`t see myself as this kind of developed girl
or woman, so...
GRACE: Sculpted, really sculpted. How many hours a day would you spend
in the gym to look the way you did at the height of your wrestling
career?
Hey, everybody, Chyna is with us. We`re about to get to the deadline
with Congress and the WWE. WWE must answer by tomorrow about complaints
from Capitol Hill. The clock is ticking on the WWE. We`ll see what
they`ve got to say.
But we are taking your calls. Here with me, Chyna, former WWE superstar.
Her real name, Joanie Laurer. Go ahead.
LAURER: Well, I was just saying that I would spend -- let`s see, school
would end about 3:00 or 4:00 for me, and I would do after-school
intramurals and -- which I was never good at any sport, but I...
GRACE: Which sport?
LAURER: ... would do every...
(CROSSTALK)
LAURER: Yes, any sport that was available to me. I was horrible at all
of them. And then I would go to the gyms, where I would swim, lift
weights, feel like I was dancing with all of the aerobics classes. And I
was very self-competitive. I pushed myself with push-ups, sit-ups, you
know, all of the -- you know, the hard-core exercises.
GRACE: So how many years...
LAURER: Until 10:00 or 11:00 at night.
GRACE: For you to look -- 10:00 or 11:00 o`clock at night?
LAURER: Yes, 10 hours.
GRACE: You would spend hours in the gym every day.
LAURER: That was my life.
GRACE: How did you first end up stepping into a wrestling ring?
LAURER: I was watching -- I came in one night from the gym, and my
sister was watching it on television.
GRACE: Watching what?
LAURER: Wrestling.
GRACE: OK.
LAURER: And I looked over. And I didn`t really know anything about it. I
mean, I`d heard of wrestling, obviously, like everybody in the world,
but I didn`t know the specifics or the specific characters or athletes.
And I looked over and I started chuckling to myself. And I said, Oh, I
could do that. I would be perfect. I would fit the mold for that. I`m
going to be a wrestler.
And I started traveling to go see shows. I started getting to know
people in the industry, whoever I could. I started calling. There wasn`t
a local wrestling school. You know, I didn`t know this, that they even
existed. But I somehow worked my way into the organization. And that`s
what I would say, once I was hired, I really started learning.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) I`m comparing to you -- I think about the first time
I ever tried a case, first time I ever struck a jury. What was it like
the first time you went in a ring for a professional wrestling bout? Do
you remember?
LAURER: I do. It was -- I don`t -- I had no idea what was coming my way.
And the funny part, Nancy, you mentioned is that, in my mind, I had
always wanted to be -- I always wanted to be the supermodel, you know?
But I was this big girl, and so I viewed it as playing a role.
GRACE: How tall are you?
LAURER: Five-ten. So I viewed it as playing a role when I was hired for
wrestling, and that was a role to me. I just happened to be...
GRACE: You know, you`ve got...
LAURER: ... an athlete.
GRACE: ... about 10 inches, but I think I got about (INAUDIBLE) a few
pounds on you.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. Go ahead.
LAURER: You`d whip my butt, Nancy. It was...
GRACE: First time in the ring?
LAURER: I loved it.
GRACE: Did you win?
LAURER: I was -- actually, I started off as a bodyguard, manager type of
role, so I really didn`t do much for the first year.
GRACE: Do you think...
LAURER: I was a presence, more than anything.
GRACE: Did you ever wrestle a man?
LAURER: That`s all I really did, was I -- what I was known for, the
first female to really...
GRACE: And won.
LAURER: ... have the strength and...
GRACE: And won.
LAURER: ... and the demeanor -- and won many times.
GRACE: Many, many times.
LAURER: Many times.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Justin in Oklahoma. Hi, Justin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m doing good.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, what is Chyna`s reaction to what has
happened with Chris Benoit`s death?
GRACE: You know what, Justin? Hold on one moment. Before we go to her on
that, let`s get the very latest on what is happening. As you know,
Justin in Oklahoma, deadline tomorrow. The clock is ticking. Capitol
Hill wants answers as to how many and why so many pro wrestlers are
dying before 50.
Hey, Elizabeth, let`s run that list of how many pro wrestlers have died
before their time. It is incredible!
Out to Dave Meltzer with Wrestlingobserver.com and friend of Chris
Benoit. Dave, tell me about the very latest regarding the investigation
into these deaths.
DAVE MELTZER, WRESTLINGOBSERVER.COM: I don`t know that there`s really
anything new, at this point. You know, there`s two different Senate
committees working on the subject. They`ve subpoenaed other wrestling
companies for records that probably don`t exist. They`ve subpoenaed WWE
for records that do exist. And what happens from there, I mean, you
know, time will tell.
GRACE: Bryan Alvarez with Figurefouronline.com, what else can you tell
us?
BRYAN ALVAREZ, FIGUREFOURONLINE.COM: WWE actually sent a response to
Congress last week. It was a very conciliatory letter. They just
basically said, Here`s the information. We`re going to send you our
wellness policy. If you want more information...
GRACE: Their wellness policy?
ALVAREZ: Their wellness policy.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Bryan Alvarez, I know you`re just giving me the
facts, but -- Chyna, you`re on cross now. How many drug tests did you
ever take with the WWE?
LAURER: Not one.
GRACE: OK, now, what were you saying about that wellness policy?
ALVAREZ: WWE does, in fact, have a wellness policy. It may not be a good
policy, but they`ve got a policy. They`re going to send that. They`ve
got information about Dr. Astin -- not Dr. Astin, but Dr. Black. They`ve
recommended if you have any questions about this, you should talk to
him. And basically just saying, We`re going to give you everything we
have. And this is a third party that is in charge of testing, so if you
have any questions about that, you should talk to him.
GRACE: There are two separate Congressional inquiries going forward as
we speak. In less than 24 hours, the WWE is set to answer some of the
questions Capitol Hill has posed to them.
Back out to the lines. Everyone, with me, a real wrestling superstar.
Her name, Chyna, as you know her. Her real name, Joanie Laurer.
Out to the lines. Ricky in Tennessee. Hi, Ricky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty good. You doing OK?
GRACE: I`m hanging in there. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Not to say I`m uncaring, but with everything else
in going on in the country with the war and everything, why does
Congress feel like they need to get involved with professional wrestling
and baseball players doing steroids?
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Chris Cruise, worked for Vince McMahon,
former wrestling play-by-play announcer. And Ricky, believe me, my
father is a veteran of the world war. We certainly are not comparing any
of this to the deaths over in Iraq or any other theater in the world.
But this is a real concern. Explain, Chris.
CHRIS CRUISE, FORMER PRO WRESTLING ANNOUNCER: Nancy, the members of
Congress and the staff that I`ve spoken with have dealt with that issue.
They believe that this is a life-or-death issue. Professional wrestlers
are dying, but not just that pro wrestlers are dying, but the children
who are watching pro wrestlers are going to grow up and they`re going to
take steroids or human growth hormone and they`re going to die, as well.
So If you`re going to use that argument that there are better things to
do with Congress`s time, Congress has an answer, and they believe that
this is totally appropriate for them to investigate.
GRACE: And I want to go to Marc Mero, former WWE superstar himself.
Explain, Marc.
MARC MERO, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: There`s a trick-down effect that one
million kids between 6th grade and 12th grade are now using anabolic
steroids. And that`s something that I think that -- one of the reasons
why WWE and the wrestling world has got to take notice of what`s
happening out there.
GRACE: To Bryan Alvarez, Figurefouronline.com. Tell me about the latest
deaths. Three deaths among pro wrestlers have happened since Benoit`s
death.
ALVAREZ: Well, the latest is Brian Adams, who worked with WWE in the
early `90s, New Japan, WCW, WWE, a couple of years ago as the "Kronik"
tag team. He just passed away. He was in his early 40s. And we don`t
have any real information yet. We`re waiting for toxicology reports to
come back, as is almost always the case in these deaths. But it`s just
another one in a long list.
GRACE: You know, our caller, Ricky in Tennessee, was asking why this was
taking so much attention. Take a listen to this. Of the wrestlers,
nearly 70 dead in just 10 years, all before age 50. That would equal, if
you compare it to other major sports, to 435 NFL dead, to 186 baseball
players dead. Now, you know, maybe I`m crazy, but to me, that means that
there is a hard-core problem.
Back to Chyna. Why is it -- I mean, I`ve got my own theory. People - - a
lot of people look down their nose at wrestling. They don`t think it`s a
pure sport. All right. You know what? Fine. But my question is, how long
do we stand by and watch people drop like flies, whether we like their
sport or we don`t like their sport.
When you heard about Benoit, what was your immediate reaction?
LAURER: I was angered. And that`s a really good question, Nancy, and
maybe you can help me explain this in a proper manner, is that whether
people from the outside looking in are turning their nose up or down at
it, there`s some -- I`m coming from the inside out. And the fans are so
wonderful. They`re so dedicated. They`re so loyal. But at the same time,
they can be extremely venomous.
What bothers me is that venomous action on something that`s right in
front of the world`s faces, that there is something wrong. There`s death
after death after death, and the people that are listed are people I`ve
known, I don`t even know their real name. It`s really a convoluted
issue. And it`s -- you know, it`s not something that you should have to
take sides over and be liked or disliked or judged for that. It`s
happening. There are facts.
GRACE: So much is happening within the case of Benoit. As you know a
superseding or an additional indictment is being handed down by the
feds, adding charges to the doctor to the wrestling stars Phil Astin.
Tomorrow, Congress waiting on a response -- the deadline is 5:00 PM --
from the WWE.
And in the middle of all this, there is a legal battle going on for
Benoit`s millions. It`s a very complicated legal question. Bryan
Alvarez, who`s fighting who over the Benoit millions?
ALVAREZ: Well, it`s basically the Benoit family versus Nancy Benoit`s
family, Chris Benoit`s versus Nancy`s. And the way that it works is
there`s a "slayer statute" in Georgia which says the murderer, his
family cannot get his -- basically, inherit his fortune. And the
situation is, if Nancy Benoit died first, she didn`t have a will, so her
estate would flow to Daniel and Daniel`s heirs, which would be Chris
Benoit`s other two children in Canada, they would end up getting the
estate. If Daniel died first, then the Nancy Benoit family is going to
get the estate. And of course, the coroner said that Daniel passed away
after Nancy. So right now, it`s going to be a very tough battle for the
Nancy Benoit family to try to get it switched around.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Richard Herman out
of New York, Rachel Kugel out of New York, Eleanor Dixon out of Atlanta.
First of all to you, Rachel Kugel. The legal ramifications of the fight
over Benoit`s millions -- it really all boils down to the medical
examiner, who died first. But don`t you think the other side will bring
in their own specialists?
RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. I mean, actually, this could come
out to a whole trial. I mean, you could have a whole trial on this issue
as to who died first, if they want to get to that point. It could be
wild and a battle of the experts in an estate case.
GRACE: It will be a battle.
Out to the lines. Carlos in Florida. Hi, Carlos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear? What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is for Chyna. While wrestlers -- during
her time in WWE, while wrestlers were taking a break from being active
on the roster, did Vince McMahon go out of his way to make sure that his
wrestlers were getting tested at all?
GRACE: Good question.
LAURER: Well, first of all, no. And second of all, you weren`t taking a
break from the roster unless you were hurt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURER: You can`t simply deny that death after death after death after
death that something is wrong. Most people who have -- you know, have
lived and died in that ring. And I believe that there`s a responsibility
there that`s not OK because it doesn`t happen anywhere else in any other
sport or television or movies or in any other industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Three more dead bodies since the death of superstar Chris Benoit,
superstar in the wrestling ring. And what`s being done about it? Well,
Congress is set now to have two different subcommittee hearings on the
increasing numbers of deaths within the wrestling ring.
With me tonight, a wrestling superstar, Chyna. Joanie Laurer is with us,
speaking out about drugs and death in pro wrestling.
Out to the lines. Melissa in Indiana. Hi, Melissa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to ask Joanie if she felt any pressure
from the WWE to change her appearance because it changed drastically
from when she first started and when she left.
LAURER: Yes. Good question. There was a little bit of pressure. I came
into the World Wrestling Federation as kind of a monster, you know,
presence, and I had to be to make that role believable. And however, you
know, I always wanted to be much more feminine, and you know, wear the
-- have the nice hair and the -- you know, the big boobs and the whole
look that was opposite of the role that I played. So yes, there was
pressure to -- although inevitably, I did this because I had to for me.
So the look did change.
GRACE: You know, your look has changed immensely. I`m just taking a look
at you in various shots. Did you ever do steroids to look that cut (ph)?
LAURER: No, I did not, which still to this day -- it`s taken so many
years later to -- I shouldn`t have to say prove that, but understandably
(INAUDIBLE) but luckily, I never did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The foolishness of professional wrestling degrades
the actual people involved in it. These are really human beings, after
all, and we really are people with families and with loved ones and
mothers and fathers, but yet we are treated almost like circus animals
in the professional wrestling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The clock is ticking, the WWE expected to respond to Congress, to
Waxman, tomorrow at 5:00 PM.
Here on the set with me, a real superstar. You know her as Chyna. This
is Joanie Laurer, WWE superstar. Was it common to see drugs in the
locker room?
LAURER: It was common to see drugs everywhere, Nancy.
GRACE: Explain.
LAURER: Well, you know, you`re talking about a multitude of different
kind of drugs, as well. So I mean, drugs were prevalent everywhere while
- - professionally, I`ll say, while we were, you know, working, before
working, after working, in social settings.
GRACE: What, to deal with pain, steroids, what?
LAURER: All of the above. Every facet of -- you know, it went from pain
tolerance to steroids to a social level. So it was very confusing for me
most of the time, and I think I allowed it to happen most of the time
around me because I didn`t know any different. So that (INAUDIBLE) was
very convoluted or it crossed between social and pain and esthetically.
It was very confusing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINCE MCMAHON, WWE OWNER: Speaking of the United States of America, do
you know what I hold in my hand, coach? I hold two different letters
from Congress, two different congressional committees want to
investigate the WWE at the same time. Does that make any sense to you
whatsoever? None. I mean, you might as well have Barney Fife from the
old "Andy Griffith" show. Now, Barney could do a complete investigation.
I mean, why do we need a congressional committee, much less two, to
investigate WWE? That makes no sense whatsoever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As much as I give them hell, I don`t believe that I would make
fun of a congressional hearing. That was Mr. Vince McMahon on the WWE
"Monday Night Raw" a few weeks ago in a skit mocking the congressional
hearings. Not that I think Congress was watching -- I believe it was
11:30 at night -- but their aides probably told them about it. I don`t
think that was such a great idea.
Out to the lines, Matthew in Pennsylvania. Hi, Matthew.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
CALLER: I just have a question for Chyna. What do you think the
percentages of people using steroids currently in the WWE?
JOANIE "CHYNA" LAURER, WRESTLING STAR: Oh, I can only guess. And what I
would -- my hypothesis would be the same as it was, which was pretty
much everyone. I mean, obviously with the same cyclical number of deaths
and behavior, nothing`s changed from what I see.
GRACE: Do you think any of these deaths are having any effect on steroid
use?
LAURER: No, I don`t.
GRACE: Out to Lori in Florida. Hi, Lori.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, love you. My question is for your pro wrestlers. And
what do you think about what`s advertised as legal steroids, as dietary
supplements and testosterone boosters, containing Tribulus terrestris
and syonone vega extract (ph)? And are they as dangerous as actual
steroids?
GRACE: OK, first of all, let`s throw that to Dr. William Morrone,
medical examiner, pathologist out of Madison Heights, Michigan --
Doctor?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: They`re not the same thing as
true steroids. They can be dangerous for other reasons. But what was
dangerous was the dihydroepiandosterone (ph), and that was removed from
the market. And that was a food supplement. The only way you can get
real steroids, control-free substance steroids, is with a prescription.
The other stuff is fraud.
GRACE: What about it, Chyna?
LAURER: Nancy, their heads are popping off of their bodies. Their hearts
are exploding. They`re having heart attacks. By the age of 35, the
majority of people that I ever worked with are dead. Their bodies change
overnight, something that an average person would be half the size after
years and years and years of athletic training.
GRACE: To you Marc Mero, weigh in.
MARC MERO, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: Well, to four family members of
wrestlers that have currently died, two today and two yesterday. And
what Vince McMahon did on "Monday Night Raw" by making light of the
congressional hearings was absurd and it`s sad, because his value
between reality and fantasy is blurred right now. And I`m very sad to
see this, and the families are appalled by this.
And I tell you something, something has got to be done, because too many
of the people I`ve wrestled against, that Chyna`s wrestled with, 27 are
dead, and something needs to be done. And I`m just getting tired of it.
That`s why we`re taking our program across the nation, speaking at
schools through education and awareness.
GRACE: I want to go out to Bethany Marshall, psychotherapist and author.
Bethany, why is it that, if this were some other sport, everyone would
be standing on their heads. But because it`s wrestling, it seems like it
doesn`t matter?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, it seems to me to be a little
like gladiator fights in ancient Rome. In gladiator fights, someone
always died, right?
Also, I think in the psyche of the public, wrestlers are cartoon
characters, whereas our baseball players and football players, they are
our national heroes. I mean, what mom says to their kid, "When you grow
up, I want you to be a wrestler"? Mickey Mouse died so many times, but,
of course, he`s always revived. He falls off the cliff. He gets hit in
the head, and he still lives. So I think, in the eyes of the public,
these wrestlers are like cartoon characters, and we don`t get care
enough about them.
GRACE: That`s a real interesting take on it. I want to ask our lawyers,
Richard Herman, Rachel Kugel, Eleanor Dixon, out to you, Richard Herman,
we`re still waiting on that federal superseding indictment against the
doctor to the stars, Phil Astin. What`s the holdup?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I`ll tell you, this
indictment is going to come down. This doctor is in hot water. If he`s
prescribing medications without examining these patients, if he doesn`t
have a medical basis for these prescriptions, if they`re just to make
these people look like Adonises, this guy is going to get convicted.
He`s going to go down, Nancy.
GRACE: What about it, Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, you know what happens when the feds do
a superseding indictment. It means they have more evidence. It means
they`re going to put more into the indictment, and that means they have
a pretty good case on the doctor. So I agree. I expect he`s going to be
charged with a lot more.
GRACE: Eleanor, why are the feds so slow?
DIXON: I don`t know.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No offense to the feds. The last thing I need is the tax man
looking at me. But they`re slow. I used to be a fed. They are slow.
DIXON: Well, they`re going to make their case stick from the very
beginning when it`s indicted, so they`re going to get all their
evidence, everything they can up front and have the strongest case
possible. So sometimes they move a little slower. And let`s face it,
Nancy, sometimes they don`t have as many cases as we do in the state
system.
GRACE: And, bottom line, they`re not gunslingers like state prosecutors,
where you get a file and you may have to go to trial that afternoon.
That`s not the way the feds work it.
I want to go back to Mr. William Morrone. Now the doctor is blaming the
whole overdose, the alleged overdose of steroids, on some kind of a
hormonal problem that Benoit had. It sounds crazy to me. What do you
make of it?
MORRONE: How well did he document his records? What kind of tests did he
do to prove that there was a primary or a secondary hormonal failure?
And then, in the follow-up, was he testing to see he was getting the
right amount of steroids, or was it a clue to abuse, not just
replacement? Those are really important questions.
GRACE: Response, Chyna?
LAURER: Nancy, in general, any medical condition that a wrestler would
have, such as torn muscles or any other medical conditions, why aren`t
people looked at medically for injuries or problems rather than pumping
their bodies full of steroids? Is this a medical condition? It sounds
like addict behavior to me to blame it on a hormonal growth problem.
GRACE: Hormonal problem.
LAURER: How many years later?
GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense, Morrone, that Benoit would have a
hormonal problem and the...
MORRONE: You`ve got to let me answer that.
GRACE: ... and the result would be anabolic steroids.
MORRONE: The answer is previous use of anabolic steroids have caused
testicular failure. Because of the abuse, it shuts off the hormone
feedback in the brain, and the only way to get your male hormones back
is supplemental replacement. That`s what`s important.
GRACE: I see.
To Jordan in Pennsylvania. Hi, Jordan.
CALLER: Hi, how are you doing? I was just curious to know, it has been
said that wrestling is a theatrical or entertaining nature. I`m just
wondering, is there some consensus as to why there`s such a
proliferation of these performance enhancers?
GRACE: Great question. Chyna?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re not in the ring.
LAURER: Well, and obviously the characters are larger-than-life
characters, so your physique is going to have a grand factor of being a
larger-than-life character.
GRACE: Or you`ll never make it in the ring. What about it, Chris Cruise?
CHRIS CRUISE, SPORTS ANNOUNCER: McMahon has a body fetish. He wants
people who are not just big, but are cut. And Vince McMahon and his
staff, they`re only going to hire and push those guys who are `roided,
who are not just huge, but are cut.
The only way to get to that point, Nancy, is with steroids or with human
growth hormone. And I`ve got a question: Where the heck is the Screen
Actors Guild? Where`s the stuntman`s union? Who is taking care of these
professional wrestlers who are stepping up to take care of it? This
problem is not going to be solved unless there`s a union. And the
problem is not going to be solved unless there`s a national commission
that`s got the power to suspend, that`s got the power to do random drug
testing.
I applaud you for your efforts, but we need a union, and we need a
national commission. And in terms it was Congress listening on that
Barney Fife issue? I can assure you, he was. Congress was, I beg your
pardon.
GRACE: To Dave Meltzer, it`s hard for me to believe that McMahon
pooh-poohed Congress and that that all that they have sent to support
themselves is their wellness policy.
DAVE MELTZER, WRESTLINGOBSERVER.COM: Well, they`re going to send their
drug-testing records to Congress. I think they already sent it to one
committee last week. I think that Vince -- one of the problems with
Vince is that he`s surrounded by people who -- they live in kind of a
wrestling bubble. And what happens is they -- Vince, go give them hell.
Vince, don`t back down.
So he does these things on television. And then he can go and say, "Hey,
it was only for television entertainment." But it was -- you know, I
watched it and I just thought, what are you doing?
GRACE: Final thought, Chyna?
LAURER: My final thought is that Vince is a grown man with a billion-
dollar company and an entertainment industry worldwide. So that`s
malarkey. But to Marc Mero, big kiss to you. We are doing this because
we love these guys and we care about these guys and we love where we`ve
been and what we do now. And I`m very proud of that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"CONAN," FORMER PRO WRESTLER: WWE educated the fans that, you know, the
big physiques is what were going to be the big moneymakers. When I was
growing up and I was watching wrestling, it wasn`t based on big
physiques like it is now. But when I first got into the business, you
know, everybody was on the juice or on steroids. And to make money, you
had to be on the juice. That`s basically it.
Our industry, not only is it rife with racism and sexism, but we are
exploited, you know, in preposterous proportions. And I`ll give you an
example. Not only do we not have no pension or retirement or a union, do
you know that, when we go on the road, we have to pay for our own hotel,
we have to pay for our own transportation from the airport to the hotel?
I mean, what other athlete does that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Former pro wrestler Conan speaking out. He is suffering tonight
after a kidney transplant.
To Dave Meltzer, how is he?
MELTZER: Better. He was in the hospital until a couple of days ago. And
his body was -- for a while there, they feared that he was going to lose
the kidney because his body was rejecting it, but he was given heavy,
heavy dosages of anti-rejection drugs and was finally able to leave the
hospital. But he`s weak. And he was fighting for his life for the last
couple of weeks.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, what would years of anabolic steroids do to the
chances of you surviving a kidney transplant?
MORRONE: They`d make it really difficult. The long-term consequences of
disease affect that area as well as cardiovascular and put you at heart
risk, too.
GRACE: Bryan Alvarez, again, I want to throw this to you. I`m really
surprised McMahon would make fun of the congressional hearings on air
and then, asked to respond to Congress, to just send their wellness
policy. I mean, here`s Chyna sitting right here who never took a single
drug test the whole time she was with WWE.
BRYAN ALVAREZ, FIGUREFOURONLINE.COM: Well, two things. First off, he was
even dumber because he was talking about the IRS auditing him, as well.
And I wouldn`t mess with the IRS.
GRACE: Oh, no, no. Don`t. Don`t say anything about them.
ALVAREZ: But I do want to say one thing, that a couple of weeks after
Chris Benoit died, he did call a meeting, and it was basically a "say no
to drugs" meeting. And he told everybody to get off everything. And
whether you believe that everybody got off everything...
GRACE: Just say no? That? The just say no?
ALVAREZ: Just say no to drugs. But if you watch the television...
GRACE: I can`t believe he even said that with a straight face. Just say
no?
ALVAREZ: Just say no to drugs.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I`ll never forget the first time I saw this
lady, beautiful stockbroker come into the courtroom. And she had been
addicted to drugs. She lost everything, husband, family, home,
stockbroker`s license, everything. You think she wanted to? You think
somebody never said, "Just say no, no, don`t do it anymore"? Of course
people told her no.
You know, we were talking about the people that you have seen drop dead
in the industry. Right before Owen Hart died, you spoke to him. What
happened?
LAURER: Yes, I did. Owen was going to do an entrance from the ceiling,
kind of a superhero type of entrance, and he was nervous about doing it.
And there was something about the safety harness, where Owen was talking
about they didn`t have enough time to put the extra safety harness on
for the b roll. So there wasn`t enough time for him to be properly
harnessed in. And, you know, I never would have imagined that he -- I
had been in a harness many times for other shows, as well. I couldn`t
imagine -- I know the feeling of nerves, but who would have known that
he would have fallen out of the ceiling?
GRACE: What did say right before he went in the ring?
LAURER: He didn`t really say anything. It was just -- you could see the
nerves. I mean, anybody being lowered from that height, it`s a nerve-
racking experience to be that high up anyway.
GRACE: Do you think wrestlers should be role models?
LAURER: I think that they are role models, and that`s one of my big
issues with this.
GRACE: Because?
LAURER: Because people who are not wrestling, which are few and far
between -- I can name a couple of them -- they`re not the heroes. The
ones who live and died and lived that life are the heroes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The foolishness of professional wrestling degrades
the actual people who are involved in it. These are really human beings,
after all, and we really are people with families and with loved ones
and mothers and fathers, but yet we`re treated as almost like circus
animals in the professional wrestling world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s see what Congress will really do. Deadline tomorrow, 5:00
sharp in the afternoon, for the WWE to answer Congress`s questions to
Waxman.
Very quickly, Eleanor Dixon, the only way I believe that the abuse of
steroids within wrestling will end is to go after the doctors. That`s
just what I think. Will Astin go down?
DIXON: I think he will, Nancy. And think of it this way. If he was
peddling cocaine and was a drug trafficker, we would go after him with a
vengeance. This is the same thing: He`s a drug pusher. We need to go
after him.
GRACE: He`s been called a drug pusher in a $1,000 suit, so we`ll just
see what happens in court. Of course, not proven guilty yet. Very
quickly, T.J. in California, what`s your question?
CALLER: My question is for Chyna. What`s the peer pressure between other
wrestlers and, say, herself to take steroids?
GRACE: Oh, good question.
LAURER: Well, I would say that, you know, the majority of guys there,
all of them really, have a passion for this business, you know? They
love it. They eat it, sleep it, breathe it, you know? So to be a part of
it, you have to do -- to be there, you have to do what everyone else
does.
GRACE: To Katie in Missouri. Katie?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, love you.
GRACE: Thank you, love.
CALLER: My question is for Chyna. Do you think that steroids plays any
part of a role for the female wrestlers?
LAURER: No, I don`t. And there aren`t that many female wrestlers, as
there shouldn`t be, I agree, I think.
GRACE: You know what? I`m glad to hear it.
With me tonight, a real superstar, Jenny Laurer, aka Chyna.
Thank you for being with us and inviting us into your home. Thank you to
Chyna. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good
night, friend.
END"
Gerweck