Black Widow
07-12-2008, 09:15 AM
EARL HEBNER is the most famous referee in the wrestling business, with a career as illustrious and controversial as some of the grapplers themselves.
His most famous moment inside the squared circle was the 'Montreal Screwjob' involving Bret 'Hitman' Hart and Shawn Michaels at the 1997 Survivor Series.
And now, in an exclusive chat with SunSport conducted when TNA were in the UK, the man with 30 years experience as a top referee reveals all on the story that shocked the wrestling world, his time in the WWE and his new role for their biggest rivals.
Earl, great to talk to you. Tell us, firstly, what it’s like to be with TNA?
It’s great being with TNA. It’s a laid-back company, it’s growing bigger and bigger every year, and I’m just proud to be one of their referees.
You’ve been over here many times with WWE, this is the first time you’ve been over with TNA, what have you made of the crowd this week?
I enjoy the crowd. Whether I’m with WWE or TNA I carry my same strategy. I’m either loved or hated.
Which do you prefer?
I prefer them hating me, because it’s more entertaining for me. Did you see how I teased the crowd last night? I just love it, and after the show, I don’t know how many autographs I signed.
It was a nice touch for TNA to make sure all of the fans got to meet the guys.
That’s something WWE doesn’t do. Maybe they think they’re too good, or however you want to put it. But TNA treats their fans great, that’s mainly why TNA is growing, because we do different things.
These guys don’t complain about staying an hour or two later. We could’ve been out of here an hour earlier, but look how many people we made happy, look how many people will come back, knowing how the talent treated the fans.
What did you think of the venue in Liverpool and UK arenas as a whole?
I love this venue, because we sold it out. It’s good for the first time over. When we come back, the buildings are bigger and there will be more fans, because of the way we’ve done it on this tour.
In the ring, the people hate me. Outside the ring, they love me. I must have signed 200 autographs last night. They were begging: “Earl, Earl, Earl. Sign here please.”
That’s a good feeling. They know that in the ring, to their mind, I’m a bad guy, but on the outside I’m a good guy.
Fans still chant “You screwed Bret” eleven years after the famous 'Montereal Screwjob'. Does it bother you?
I love it. Once I stepped out and I knew what was in store for me, it made my night. I thought “I’ve got them in my hand.” It means I can work with them and piss them off more than I thought I could.
Speaking to Bret Hart, Montreal is still something that haunts him. You were obviously in a very difficult position that night. Do you wish that the subject was forgotten, and do you have any resentment toward him?
I love Bret Hart to death. It was something I was asked to do. Told to do, in fact. If it was today, I would never do it.
WWE has treated me, my brother and my son awful wrong for the things that we did. Especially my brother, who took care of the office on the road for a long time and made them lots of money.
I did the bad things to get the jobs done because some of the other refs didn’t want to do it or didn’t know how to do it. You've got to be a team player.
If I’d have known then how I was going to be treated later in my career with WWE, I never would have done it. But at the time I didn’t know. It’s all hindsight.
The thing is, TNA is like the WWE when they were a company coming up. The WWE knew how to treat people, but when they got big they didn’t care. This company cares about their talent.
How long have you been doing this?
I’ve been refereeing almost 30 years.
Do you ever get bored?
This is a business where you never get bored. It’s hard, you get tired of travelling, but you never get bored. I don’t want to tell you my age, but I feel like a teenager.
This business has kept me young. A lot of bones crack and hurt but I have good health.
You have to be fit too, don’t you, working with these guys?
Put it this way, I’m 59 years old. How many 59-year-old guys get around like I do? It’s really not a job, it’s a hobby.
If there is a wrestling fan out there, and you ask them to name a wrestler, they could say any number of names. Ask them to name a referee, they say Earl Hebner.
My son said to me one time “Daddy, you’re a legend” and I said, “Not really.”
He said: “Daddy, stop and think. How many people can name a football referee, how many can name a baseball referee or a basketball referee? You talk about wrestling, when you say who’s the referee who did this, they say ‘Earl Hebner’”
I’m not putting myself over, that's what my son told me.
What do you think of your son being in the business?
In the next year or so he’ll be in TNA. He’s had the opportunity to go back to WWE several times and he’s turned them down. He doesn’t want to go back there.
I would love to see him come here. It would be great for me. I’d get to see him a lot and we’d get to work together a lot. He’s a Hebner for one.
When he was growing up and wanted to get into the business, I’d teach him to look at the film of me and he’s really the spitting image of me except I can’t do the bumps that he does now!
I used to take them in the centre of the ring, now I take them by the ropes so I can get up!
Of all the matches you’ve refereed, which ones stand out?
I’ve had a lot of matches, of course, but four really stand out. Hogan and Andre, with the twins angle with my brother and I. (The Main Event I, February 1988)
The second was Kurt Angle getting knocked out and I coached him through that match, even took my hand and slid it under his shoulder to kick him out because I knew he was injured.
The third would be when Austin broke his neck against Owen, I told Owen to take the schoolboy so that Austin wouldn't be hurt any more.
They all rate, but the fourth has to be the Bret Hart deal.
If someone wanted to be a ref, how would they go about it, and what qualities would they need?
The refereeing business in wrestling is a bit different to other sports. You've either got to want to do it or not. There is punishment in this business where there isn't in other sports for referees.
It’s tough, but if you love it, you’ll learn it. It’s up to you whether or not you make it, because if you’re not good, you’re not going to be around. If you can’t follow the matches, and do what you have to do, it’s not going to work.
In a given night I could have three matches. There are probably between 40 and 60 things I have to remember. Whereas the first wrestler out, he’s in there for 10 minutes, and after that he’s finished for the night. I’m not. We carry a lot of pressure.
It’s not as easy as it looks.
His most famous moment inside the squared circle was the 'Montreal Screwjob' involving Bret 'Hitman' Hart and Shawn Michaels at the 1997 Survivor Series.
And now, in an exclusive chat with SunSport conducted when TNA were in the UK, the man with 30 years experience as a top referee reveals all on the story that shocked the wrestling world, his time in the WWE and his new role for their biggest rivals.
Earl, great to talk to you. Tell us, firstly, what it’s like to be with TNA?
It’s great being with TNA. It’s a laid-back company, it’s growing bigger and bigger every year, and I’m just proud to be one of their referees.
You’ve been over here many times with WWE, this is the first time you’ve been over with TNA, what have you made of the crowd this week?
I enjoy the crowd. Whether I’m with WWE or TNA I carry my same strategy. I’m either loved or hated.
Which do you prefer?
I prefer them hating me, because it’s more entertaining for me. Did you see how I teased the crowd last night? I just love it, and after the show, I don’t know how many autographs I signed.
It was a nice touch for TNA to make sure all of the fans got to meet the guys.
That’s something WWE doesn’t do. Maybe they think they’re too good, or however you want to put it. But TNA treats their fans great, that’s mainly why TNA is growing, because we do different things.
These guys don’t complain about staying an hour or two later. We could’ve been out of here an hour earlier, but look how many people we made happy, look how many people will come back, knowing how the talent treated the fans.
What did you think of the venue in Liverpool and UK arenas as a whole?
I love this venue, because we sold it out. It’s good for the first time over. When we come back, the buildings are bigger and there will be more fans, because of the way we’ve done it on this tour.
In the ring, the people hate me. Outside the ring, they love me. I must have signed 200 autographs last night. They were begging: “Earl, Earl, Earl. Sign here please.”
That’s a good feeling. They know that in the ring, to their mind, I’m a bad guy, but on the outside I’m a good guy.
Fans still chant “You screwed Bret” eleven years after the famous 'Montereal Screwjob'. Does it bother you?
I love it. Once I stepped out and I knew what was in store for me, it made my night. I thought “I’ve got them in my hand.” It means I can work with them and piss them off more than I thought I could.
Speaking to Bret Hart, Montreal is still something that haunts him. You were obviously in a very difficult position that night. Do you wish that the subject was forgotten, and do you have any resentment toward him?
I love Bret Hart to death. It was something I was asked to do. Told to do, in fact. If it was today, I would never do it.
WWE has treated me, my brother and my son awful wrong for the things that we did. Especially my brother, who took care of the office on the road for a long time and made them lots of money.
I did the bad things to get the jobs done because some of the other refs didn’t want to do it or didn’t know how to do it. You've got to be a team player.
If I’d have known then how I was going to be treated later in my career with WWE, I never would have done it. But at the time I didn’t know. It’s all hindsight.
The thing is, TNA is like the WWE when they were a company coming up. The WWE knew how to treat people, but when they got big they didn’t care. This company cares about their talent.
How long have you been doing this?
I’ve been refereeing almost 30 years.
Do you ever get bored?
This is a business where you never get bored. It’s hard, you get tired of travelling, but you never get bored. I don’t want to tell you my age, but I feel like a teenager.
This business has kept me young. A lot of bones crack and hurt but I have good health.
You have to be fit too, don’t you, working with these guys?
Put it this way, I’m 59 years old. How many 59-year-old guys get around like I do? It’s really not a job, it’s a hobby.
If there is a wrestling fan out there, and you ask them to name a wrestler, they could say any number of names. Ask them to name a referee, they say Earl Hebner.
My son said to me one time “Daddy, you’re a legend” and I said, “Not really.”
He said: “Daddy, stop and think. How many people can name a football referee, how many can name a baseball referee or a basketball referee? You talk about wrestling, when you say who’s the referee who did this, they say ‘Earl Hebner’”
I’m not putting myself over, that's what my son told me.
What do you think of your son being in the business?
In the next year or so he’ll be in TNA. He’s had the opportunity to go back to WWE several times and he’s turned them down. He doesn’t want to go back there.
I would love to see him come here. It would be great for me. I’d get to see him a lot and we’d get to work together a lot. He’s a Hebner for one.
When he was growing up and wanted to get into the business, I’d teach him to look at the film of me and he’s really the spitting image of me except I can’t do the bumps that he does now!
I used to take them in the centre of the ring, now I take them by the ropes so I can get up!
Of all the matches you’ve refereed, which ones stand out?
I’ve had a lot of matches, of course, but four really stand out. Hogan and Andre, with the twins angle with my brother and I. (The Main Event I, February 1988)
The second was Kurt Angle getting knocked out and I coached him through that match, even took my hand and slid it under his shoulder to kick him out because I knew he was injured.
The third would be when Austin broke his neck against Owen, I told Owen to take the schoolboy so that Austin wouldn't be hurt any more.
They all rate, but the fourth has to be the Bret Hart deal.
If someone wanted to be a ref, how would they go about it, and what qualities would they need?
The refereeing business in wrestling is a bit different to other sports. You've either got to want to do it or not. There is punishment in this business where there isn't in other sports for referees.
It’s tough, but if you love it, you’ll learn it. It’s up to you whether or not you make it, because if you’re not good, you’re not going to be around. If you can’t follow the matches, and do what you have to do, it’s not going to work.
In a given night I could have three matches. There are probably between 40 and 60 things I have to remember. Whereas the first wrestler out, he’s in there for 10 minutes, and after that he’s finished for the night. I’m not. We carry a lot of pressure.
It’s not as easy as it looks.