Swinny
11-23-2012, 11:19 AM
Twitter Mailbag: Fowlkes on superfights, bad judging and Ronda Rousey in UFC
by Ben Fowlkes on Nov 22, 2012 at 8:00 pm ET
It's Thanksgiving here in the U.S., so if you find any gravy stains on this week's edition of the Twitter Mailbag, please bear with us.
In this installment of the TMB, we delve into the politics of the potential Anderson Silva-Georges St-Pierre superfight, the dimming prospects for a true women's division in the UFC, what you let yourself in for when you turn down a fight, and much more.
To ask a question of your own, open up the Twitter and find @BenFowlkesMMA. To have some knowledge kicked your way, read on.
* * * *
Warren@duff_tha_stuff
@benfowlkesMMA If the superfight happens and GSP gets stopped early, how does that effect his legacey
I don't think it would. Or maybe what I really mean is, I hope it wouldn't. Georges St-Pierre is the UFC welterweight champion, which means that you probably wouldn't expect him to beat the middleweight champ. You really shouldn't expect it if that middleweight champ is Anderson Silva, whose particular skill-set seems like kind of a nightmare for a fighter like GSP, who is better at taking opponents down than he is at finishing. Even if he takes Silva down at will, he's going have to start all five rounds standing in front of the greatest middleweight of all time and waiting for something bad to happen.
If he did win that fight, it would be a huge accomplishment for St-Pierre. Like, enormous. It might cement him as the greatest of all time, not to mention make him a ton of money. If Silva won, on the other hand, we'd be impressed, but then we'd shrug and insist that we had called this one a long time ago. Then we'd immediately demand to know when Silva would pay it forward by fighting Jon Jones.
The point is, if you can set aside the possible/probable damage to his face, plus whatever that beating might do to his somewhat fragile psyche, a fight with Silva is almost a no-lose scenario for GSP. Regardless of how it turns out, he'll make a bunch of money. He'll also be able to go back to fighting other welterweights without being constantly peppered with questions about it. The alternative is to keep avoiding it, which is justifiable, but probably way more aggravating and less profitable in the long run.
Alex@Alex_Newfie
@benfowlkesMMA #tmb If Riddle had tested positive b4 the fight (he said the UFC tested him early), what would the UFC have done?
According to Matt Riddle, the UFC told him they would have pulled him from the UFC 154 fight card if he'd come up positive for marijuana in any of the UFC's independent pre-fight tests. He said he passed and was cleared to fight, and also vowed to never fail another drug test again. At the same time, it didn't sound like he was saying he would never again use the drug that caused him to fail in the first place. That puts the athlete (and his employer) in a weird place. He's basically saying, "I promise not to get caught using this drug you all know I am using." It kind of defeats the purpose of having drug tests, and also makes us question their ability to catch the fighters who are using the drugs we should actually be concerned about (hint: it ain't weed). I'm not saying I think Riddle has to stop smoking. He says he uses it to treat legitimate medical issues, and unlike the victims of the supposed low testosterone epidemic, I believe him. I just can't understand why we're still testing pro athletes for pot in the first place.
Ryan Denison@rdenison13
@benfowlkesMMA What's next for Carlos Condit? Would a rematch with Diaz be possible? #TMB
I don't see the point in doing that rematch right away, because what if Condit wins? Then you've just knocked Nick Diaz further down the contenders list, but there'd still be very little support for giving Condit another shot at GSP so soon after his loss. If you want to give him a rematch with somebody, Martin Kampmann makes a lot more sense. He holds a slim split decision win over Condit, and he's also coming off a loss. Why not let them duke it out to see who can bounce back and who falls deeper into the pit of despair?
Kyle Kelly-Yahner@KyleKellyYahner
@benfowlkesMMA DW says "[Turning down fights] is a lot more normal for guys that are worried about loosing." Ya mean like pro fighters are?
There's been a lot of talk lately about the wisdom of turning down fights in the UFC. Cheick Kongo is the latest to get his name in the headlines as a fighter who says no when the UFC wants him to say yes. Before him, Matt Mitrione was taking heat for trying to pick and choose his way around a bout with Daniel Cormier. And before him, well, I don't think I have to remind you what happened to UFC 151.
Dana White's quote strikes me as a pretty obvious description of the natural state of things. Of course fighters are far more likely to turn down a fight against an opponent who they think stands a good chance of beating them. Whether they think the odds are stacked against them because of a lack of adequate preparation time, stylistic problems, lingering injuries or training camp issues – whatever – it makes sense that they would do the math on their odds of winning and make a decision accordingly. It's one thing to think you can beat anyone in your weight class. That's confidence. But to think that you could do it at a moment's notice, especially if the other guy has had two months to prepare? That's a sign you've become perhaps a little too confident.
I understand the UFC's frustration with it, because hey, trying to run a business here. These guys are pro fighters. Shouldn't they be not only ready and willing, but downright eager to fight? Isn't that what they do? But, as you point out, pro fighters also live in a world that doesn't tolerate failure well. Lose a couple fights, and your career suffers. Lose a few more, and your career may be a thing of the past. Naturally, fighters want to give themselves the best chances for success. Sometimes that might mean saying no to a late-notice fight offer, and the UFC knows that. Then again, you can only say no so many times before you have to say yes. We can't have every fighter jumping on Twitter and trying to be his own matchmaker.
Steven monteith@Stevenronmon
@benfowlkesMMA Please explain how Jon Fitch is not the 2 WW in the UFC? I'm very curious.
He's been beaten by two active UFC welterweights – Georges St-Pierre and Johny Hendricks. I think we'd all agree that GSP is the No. 1 welterweight in the UFC. After Carlos Condit's loss and Hendricks' win at UFC 154, it's hard not to think of Hendricks as No. 2. That leaves Fitch fighting for the third spot along with guys like Condit and Nick Diaz. So that's how. By the way, have I mentioned that rankings don't really matter all that much? Because, yeah, that too.
Eric Sharpe@sharperic
@benfowlkesMMA I felt Lawler won on Sat, wasn't the worst result ever. What do you think is the worst MMA decision? Sanchez v Kampman? #tmb
19 Nov 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
I also scored the fight for Tom Lawlor, but couldn't quite work up much outrage when the judges gave it to Francis Carmont. I've seen a lot worse on small shows or even in the IFL, but if we're restricting ourselves to the UFC, Diego Sanchez's win over Martin Kampmann was definitely one of the worst, though Michael Bisping's win over Matt Hamill was pretty bad as well. At least karma got busy on that one, as Bisping went on to lose an equally suspect decision to Rashad Evans in his next fight. If you're going to ask me to name one that sticks out as the absolute worst, however, I have to go with Leonard Garcia's win over Nam Phan. I love Garcia, but he didn't win that fight.
Matthew Polly@MatthewEPolly
@benfowlkesMMA Will UFC put other 135 women under contract to form a division around Ronda? Or will it be a fight by fight basis?
First of all, how nice to have a best-selling author and Rhodes Scholar writing in to the TMB. Really classes up the joint. Second, the answer to your question remains to be seen, and it will tell us a lot about how seriously the UFC is taking this whole women's MMA thing.
Right now, I've got to tell you, it doesn't look good. White told us after UFC 154 that when it came to women's MMA, he was "trying this out." At the moment, Rousey is the only female fighter the UFC has signed, which seems weird. If the UFC does decide to sign other female 135-pounders one at a time to serve as Ronda bait, then don't get too comfortable with the idea of women in the UFC. That will be a sure sign that the UFC only wants to promote Rousey herself, and not women's MMA altogether.
Mohammed Al Abassi@M_alabassi
@benfowlkesMMA Since cyborg seems disinterested in going down in weight what about a TUF for 135lb women coached by Rousey and Tate? #tmb
There's a thought, and one Dana White expressed some interest in ... sort of. When asked about that possibility in the post-fight post-press conference scrum, White said he wouldn't rule out having two female fighters coach "The Ultimate Fighter," but he seemed more into having them coach two teams of male fighters. Personally, I think that sounds like a horrible idea, and one that further suggests that the UFC isn't truly interested in women's MMA yet. An all-female season of TUF would be a great way to cultivate new talent for a brand new division. The only reason you'd use female coaches but not female fighters is if you aren't interested in the division beyond those two fighters. Or, in this case, one fighter and an opponent to be named later.
As for "Cyborg" Santos, can she really be this obstinate in the face of what could be the biggest career opportunity she'll ever get? I know, her doctor said cutting that much weight was a bad idea. I'm just curious, what did that doctor say about using steroids? Or about fighting for a living in general? Santos sure picked a convenient time to become a slave to her doctor's orders.
Adrian Sayasane@AdrianSayasane
@benfowlkesMMA If the men's bantamweight title fight is on the same card as the women's then which gets the main event?
There's a puzzler. Dana White said that a women's 135-pound title fight would be the main event, unless the fight card it was on had another title fight at a higher weight. If it so happened that the men's and women's titles were being contested at the exact same weight, then I assume they flip a coin. Either that, or they could settle it the way my college roommates and I would decide disputes: foosball. Best two out of three. And, as Nick Diaz might say, no spinning [stuff].
Sam Hunt@Jlloyd100
@benfowlkesMMA considering AS has 3 dominant wins at LHW. Why is a GSP fight even being considered? AS vs JJ is surely the fight to happen
Over and over at UFC 154, Dana White kept saying that the great thing about having an Anderson Silva on the roster is that he's the pound-for-pound best in the world, and at a weight class that is right in between the guys who are numbers two and three. In other words, he could conceivably fight them both. It's just a question of getting him to do it.
Silva told reporters in Montreal, "I am here for fight." Of course, he also said he didn't want to fight Jon Jones, leaving us to wonder, are you here for fight or not? My guess is that if he gets the lucrative superfight with GSP, and if he wins, the pressure will only build for him to take on Jones. He could always decide he's no longer here for fight and then retire, but he won't be able to straddle the fence forever.
Bryan Girard@Bryan_Girard
@benfowlkesMMA #tmb what would it take to have a chance at becoming part of the MMAJunkie team?
First, an existing member of the team has to die. But with the way we all live, that shouldn't take long. In order to be considered as a replacement, you must complete 12 daring labors, each more difficult than the last. We do not expect all applicants to survive. Those who do may come to envy the dead. Also, there's a drug test. But don't worry, Matt Riddle knows a guy who can help you pass it.
Jordan Clarke@laungtoonlad06
@benfowlkesMMA #TMB With UFC/MMA trying to get rid off anti-gay image, what do u make of Joe Rogan's Lance Bass joke?
I was at the event when it happened, so I didn't actually hear the joke on the broadcast until a few days later (though I definitely heard of it on Twitter almost immediately). It's disappointing, and pretty annoying. For one thing, it's just a tired joke set-up. "[Person] does [action] more than [pop culture reference]." I expect better out of Rogan. The dude's an actual comedian, and a good one. A comedian can say anything he wants as long as it's funny, but a) when Rogan is on the job for the UFC, he's a color commentator, not a comedian, and b) it wasn't funny.
As far as the gay stuff, I would have thought that all the major UFC personalities would have learned their lesson on this by now. The UFC has tons of gay fans. It probably has at least one gay fighter in its ranks. Chances are those people do not like tuning in to watch the sport (and the company) they've been supporting for years, only to be hit with lazy jokes that use their sexual preference – and not even anything specific about it, but just its existence – as a punchline. I'm not saying we need to gather the torches and the pitchforks or anything, and I don't want to see some forced apology that means nothing at all, but can't we just knock it off? Can't we get it through our heads that a successful joke requires more than simply any reference to homosexuality? I'm guessing that all the gay MMA fans are really hoping we can, and soon.
by Ben Fowlkes on Nov 22, 2012 at 8:00 pm ET
It's Thanksgiving here in the U.S., so if you find any gravy stains on this week's edition of the Twitter Mailbag, please bear with us.
In this installment of the TMB, we delve into the politics of the potential Anderson Silva-Georges St-Pierre superfight, the dimming prospects for a true women's division in the UFC, what you let yourself in for when you turn down a fight, and much more.
To ask a question of your own, open up the Twitter and find @BenFowlkesMMA. To have some knowledge kicked your way, read on.
* * * *
Warren@duff_tha_stuff
@benfowlkesMMA If the superfight happens and GSP gets stopped early, how does that effect his legacey
I don't think it would. Or maybe what I really mean is, I hope it wouldn't. Georges St-Pierre is the UFC welterweight champion, which means that you probably wouldn't expect him to beat the middleweight champ. You really shouldn't expect it if that middleweight champ is Anderson Silva, whose particular skill-set seems like kind of a nightmare for a fighter like GSP, who is better at taking opponents down than he is at finishing. Even if he takes Silva down at will, he's going have to start all five rounds standing in front of the greatest middleweight of all time and waiting for something bad to happen.
If he did win that fight, it would be a huge accomplishment for St-Pierre. Like, enormous. It might cement him as the greatest of all time, not to mention make him a ton of money. If Silva won, on the other hand, we'd be impressed, but then we'd shrug and insist that we had called this one a long time ago. Then we'd immediately demand to know when Silva would pay it forward by fighting Jon Jones.
The point is, if you can set aside the possible/probable damage to his face, plus whatever that beating might do to his somewhat fragile psyche, a fight with Silva is almost a no-lose scenario for GSP. Regardless of how it turns out, he'll make a bunch of money. He'll also be able to go back to fighting other welterweights without being constantly peppered with questions about it. The alternative is to keep avoiding it, which is justifiable, but probably way more aggravating and less profitable in the long run.
Alex@Alex_Newfie
@benfowlkesMMA #tmb If Riddle had tested positive b4 the fight (he said the UFC tested him early), what would the UFC have done?
According to Matt Riddle, the UFC told him they would have pulled him from the UFC 154 fight card if he'd come up positive for marijuana in any of the UFC's independent pre-fight tests. He said he passed and was cleared to fight, and also vowed to never fail another drug test again. At the same time, it didn't sound like he was saying he would never again use the drug that caused him to fail in the first place. That puts the athlete (and his employer) in a weird place. He's basically saying, "I promise not to get caught using this drug you all know I am using." It kind of defeats the purpose of having drug tests, and also makes us question their ability to catch the fighters who are using the drugs we should actually be concerned about (hint: it ain't weed). I'm not saying I think Riddle has to stop smoking. He says he uses it to treat legitimate medical issues, and unlike the victims of the supposed low testosterone epidemic, I believe him. I just can't understand why we're still testing pro athletes for pot in the first place.
Ryan Denison@rdenison13
@benfowlkesMMA What's next for Carlos Condit? Would a rematch with Diaz be possible? #TMB
I don't see the point in doing that rematch right away, because what if Condit wins? Then you've just knocked Nick Diaz further down the contenders list, but there'd still be very little support for giving Condit another shot at GSP so soon after his loss. If you want to give him a rematch with somebody, Martin Kampmann makes a lot more sense. He holds a slim split decision win over Condit, and he's also coming off a loss. Why not let them duke it out to see who can bounce back and who falls deeper into the pit of despair?
Kyle Kelly-Yahner@KyleKellyYahner
@benfowlkesMMA DW says "[Turning down fights] is a lot more normal for guys that are worried about loosing." Ya mean like pro fighters are?
There's been a lot of talk lately about the wisdom of turning down fights in the UFC. Cheick Kongo is the latest to get his name in the headlines as a fighter who says no when the UFC wants him to say yes. Before him, Matt Mitrione was taking heat for trying to pick and choose his way around a bout with Daniel Cormier. And before him, well, I don't think I have to remind you what happened to UFC 151.
Dana White's quote strikes me as a pretty obvious description of the natural state of things. Of course fighters are far more likely to turn down a fight against an opponent who they think stands a good chance of beating them. Whether they think the odds are stacked against them because of a lack of adequate preparation time, stylistic problems, lingering injuries or training camp issues – whatever – it makes sense that they would do the math on their odds of winning and make a decision accordingly. It's one thing to think you can beat anyone in your weight class. That's confidence. But to think that you could do it at a moment's notice, especially if the other guy has had two months to prepare? That's a sign you've become perhaps a little too confident.
I understand the UFC's frustration with it, because hey, trying to run a business here. These guys are pro fighters. Shouldn't they be not only ready and willing, but downright eager to fight? Isn't that what they do? But, as you point out, pro fighters also live in a world that doesn't tolerate failure well. Lose a couple fights, and your career suffers. Lose a few more, and your career may be a thing of the past. Naturally, fighters want to give themselves the best chances for success. Sometimes that might mean saying no to a late-notice fight offer, and the UFC knows that. Then again, you can only say no so many times before you have to say yes. We can't have every fighter jumping on Twitter and trying to be his own matchmaker.
Steven monteith@Stevenronmon
@benfowlkesMMA Please explain how Jon Fitch is not the 2 WW in the UFC? I'm very curious.
He's been beaten by two active UFC welterweights – Georges St-Pierre and Johny Hendricks. I think we'd all agree that GSP is the No. 1 welterweight in the UFC. After Carlos Condit's loss and Hendricks' win at UFC 154, it's hard not to think of Hendricks as No. 2. That leaves Fitch fighting for the third spot along with guys like Condit and Nick Diaz. So that's how. By the way, have I mentioned that rankings don't really matter all that much? Because, yeah, that too.
Eric Sharpe@sharperic
@benfowlkesMMA I felt Lawler won on Sat, wasn't the worst result ever. What do you think is the worst MMA decision? Sanchez v Kampman? #tmb
19 Nov 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
I also scored the fight for Tom Lawlor, but couldn't quite work up much outrage when the judges gave it to Francis Carmont. I've seen a lot worse on small shows or even in the IFL, but if we're restricting ourselves to the UFC, Diego Sanchez's win over Martin Kampmann was definitely one of the worst, though Michael Bisping's win over Matt Hamill was pretty bad as well. At least karma got busy on that one, as Bisping went on to lose an equally suspect decision to Rashad Evans in his next fight. If you're going to ask me to name one that sticks out as the absolute worst, however, I have to go with Leonard Garcia's win over Nam Phan. I love Garcia, but he didn't win that fight.
Matthew Polly@MatthewEPolly
@benfowlkesMMA Will UFC put other 135 women under contract to form a division around Ronda? Or will it be a fight by fight basis?
First of all, how nice to have a best-selling author and Rhodes Scholar writing in to the TMB. Really classes up the joint. Second, the answer to your question remains to be seen, and it will tell us a lot about how seriously the UFC is taking this whole women's MMA thing.
Right now, I've got to tell you, it doesn't look good. White told us after UFC 154 that when it came to women's MMA, he was "trying this out." At the moment, Rousey is the only female fighter the UFC has signed, which seems weird. If the UFC does decide to sign other female 135-pounders one at a time to serve as Ronda bait, then don't get too comfortable with the idea of women in the UFC. That will be a sure sign that the UFC only wants to promote Rousey herself, and not women's MMA altogether.
Mohammed Al Abassi@M_alabassi
@benfowlkesMMA Since cyborg seems disinterested in going down in weight what about a TUF for 135lb women coached by Rousey and Tate? #tmb
There's a thought, and one Dana White expressed some interest in ... sort of. When asked about that possibility in the post-fight post-press conference scrum, White said he wouldn't rule out having two female fighters coach "The Ultimate Fighter," but he seemed more into having them coach two teams of male fighters. Personally, I think that sounds like a horrible idea, and one that further suggests that the UFC isn't truly interested in women's MMA yet. An all-female season of TUF would be a great way to cultivate new talent for a brand new division. The only reason you'd use female coaches but not female fighters is if you aren't interested in the division beyond those two fighters. Or, in this case, one fighter and an opponent to be named later.
As for "Cyborg" Santos, can she really be this obstinate in the face of what could be the biggest career opportunity she'll ever get? I know, her doctor said cutting that much weight was a bad idea. I'm just curious, what did that doctor say about using steroids? Or about fighting for a living in general? Santos sure picked a convenient time to become a slave to her doctor's orders.
Adrian Sayasane@AdrianSayasane
@benfowlkesMMA If the men's bantamweight title fight is on the same card as the women's then which gets the main event?
There's a puzzler. Dana White said that a women's 135-pound title fight would be the main event, unless the fight card it was on had another title fight at a higher weight. If it so happened that the men's and women's titles were being contested at the exact same weight, then I assume they flip a coin. Either that, or they could settle it the way my college roommates and I would decide disputes: foosball. Best two out of three. And, as Nick Diaz might say, no spinning [stuff].
Sam Hunt@Jlloyd100
@benfowlkesMMA considering AS has 3 dominant wins at LHW. Why is a GSP fight even being considered? AS vs JJ is surely the fight to happen
Over and over at UFC 154, Dana White kept saying that the great thing about having an Anderson Silva on the roster is that he's the pound-for-pound best in the world, and at a weight class that is right in between the guys who are numbers two and three. In other words, he could conceivably fight them both. It's just a question of getting him to do it.
Silva told reporters in Montreal, "I am here for fight." Of course, he also said he didn't want to fight Jon Jones, leaving us to wonder, are you here for fight or not? My guess is that if he gets the lucrative superfight with GSP, and if he wins, the pressure will only build for him to take on Jones. He could always decide he's no longer here for fight and then retire, but he won't be able to straddle the fence forever.
Bryan Girard@Bryan_Girard
@benfowlkesMMA #tmb what would it take to have a chance at becoming part of the MMAJunkie team?
First, an existing member of the team has to die. But with the way we all live, that shouldn't take long. In order to be considered as a replacement, you must complete 12 daring labors, each more difficult than the last. We do not expect all applicants to survive. Those who do may come to envy the dead. Also, there's a drug test. But don't worry, Matt Riddle knows a guy who can help you pass it.
Jordan Clarke@laungtoonlad06
@benfowlkesMMA #TMB With UFC/MMA trying to get rid off anti-gay image, what do u make of Joe Rogan's Lance Bass joke?
I was at the event when it happened, so I didn't actually hear the joke on the broadcast until a few days later (though I definitely heard of it on Twitter almost immediately). It's disappointing, and pretty annoying. For one thing, it's just a tired joke set-up. "[Person] does [action] more than [pop culture reference]." I expect better out of Rogan. The dude's an actual comedian, and a good one. A comedian can say anything he wants as long as it's funny, but a) when Rogan is on the job for the UFC, he's a color commentator, not a comedian, and b) it wasn't funny.
As far as the gay stuff, I would have thought that all the major UFC personalities would have learned their lesson on this by now. The UFC has tons of gay fans. It probably has at least one gay fighter in its ranks. Chances are those people do not like tuning in to watch the sport (and the company) they've been supporting for years, only to be hit with lazy jokes that use their sexual preference – and not even anything specific about it, but just its existence – as a punchline. I'm not saying we need to gather the torches and the pitchforks or anything, and I don't want to see some forced apology that means nothing at all, but can't we just knock it off? Can't we get it through our heads that a successful joke requires more than simply any reference to homosexuality? I'm guessing that all the gay MMA fans are really hoping we can, and soon.