The Smartmark Resistance Alliance (May Contain spoilers)

[Travicity]

Not in tna dude not kids that's in wwe. Alot can more can than cant in tna. Never gonna be big? I wouldnt want them any bigger than they are cause they'd turn to crap. 100 fans what are you smoking dude? ROH have lots and 1 occasion had 2000 at one show. PWG has a loyal fanbase more people buy the dvd's than go there so less at the show. Your thinking of the bad nobody indies there arent. But who cares what they dont have that dont appeal to wwe and tna fansn are that they have wrestling and only wrestling and people it seems dont want that today thank god there's a handful of fans who still do.

[Smartmark]

I'm actually not sure if ROH can be concidered a Indy-company any more. They are the 3rd biggest promotion in US. And that's for a reason!

[CarnivoreJ]

WWE and TNA have rosters made up of a lot of young talent that came from ROH, PWG, and a few other indy promotions.

ROH probably isn't an indy fed anymore, they are more like ECW was in the nineties, with TV exposure and good wrestling of course. They have also become something of the feeder fed for TNA and WWE to an extent as well.

Most of the roster in WWE and TNA can't even wrestle

WWE has plenty of guys who can pull off good to great matches. Most of the time these guys are not given time to do it, but when allowed Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Christian, Edge, Jericho, Undertaker, Orton, and even John Cena can pull off a very entertaining match. All but Cena can bust out a sizable moveset and play on some interesting "tics" they've built up that the crowd will automatically get hyped for (I mean Taker sitting up, HBK's set up for the Elbow drop, Jericho's Walls of Jericho, and the list goes on) These are men who can enthrall a crowd and put on solid matches...which is what the business is about. So to say WWE doesn't have good wrestlers is wrong on many levels.

However, I will give it to you that many of their workers they bring in too green and never allow them to really build a good character and moveset. Ultimately guys like MVP, Miz, Morrison, etc. will (and to some extent have) become better workers, but they are playing their roles well right now, and despite not being able to pull out 5 star classics they are all well on their ways to becoming solid performers, so I don't know that you can slack the performers it sounds like you are miffed at the direction of the company, which the performers have no control over.

As for TNA you are completely wrong and the logical fallacy of saying a roster made up of 50% ex-ROH wrestlers can't wrestle because they aren't in ROH is gaping enough that I need not explain myself further.

[Kenpachi Zaraki]

yeah RoH will probably go under this year or the next. It doesn't matter if u like em or not fact remains that there is no mass appeal because rasslin' is finished. You need to move with the times and I agree with J about the rosters of the 2 big companies. A lot of em can actually wrestle it's just that their characters sometimes overshadow their ability which is not bad when u consider that they actually sell and ake money and that's what matters in the end.

Back to TNA I honestly don't think they killed it they are doing some of their best numbers. Sure the screwjob was dumb but the following week wasn't even though we don't like em burying Daniels

[Smartmark]

^^ I said most of the rosters can't wrestle. I never ment all! So Rasslin' is out huh? Then I wonder what you are looking for when you watch wrestling :eek:

If I want to see bad acting and the same feuds after and after, I rather turn on a soap opera.

[Kenpachi Zaraki]

Wrestling has always been soap opera

[Smartmark]

^^ That's where you are wrong dude! WWE and TNA are soap operas. ROH and PWG are real wrestling!

[CarnivoreJ]

The original NWA/AWA/Every other wrestling company was built on storylines and predetermined athletic contests, sort of like a soap opera. WWF(E) got huge by making it more cartoonish and less about the actual physical battles and more about the outlandish characters, WCW came about as a response to WWF(E) and they tried to do a bit more wrestling while also focusing on outlandish characters. Ultimately they both had a good mixture of both and therefore created the Monday Night wars, the best time for every wrestling fan was during these days. We had good wrestling from the undercard and a great story from the main eventers in WCW while WWE was doing something similar by bringing in all the disgruntled WCW guys who were great workers (Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero) We all know how this ended up. End of history lesson.

The point here is if we wanted to watch "real wrestling" we'd go to a high school gym, or wait until the Olympics. We want athletic contests with a flair for the dramatic. ROH has storylines and characters, the point here is you don't like the focus being on the stories instead of the in ring action, which is fine, and it's ROH's niche. But you can't say that it's "real wrestling" while the others are not.

And I'd like to add that I do not see ROH going under. I think they are doing okay and they have definately gotten interesting lately. I love the addition of Jim Cornette and I am looking forward to what is coming from them. I still think they need to shift that ROH title onto someone other than Austin Aires, like maybe a Chris Hero or a Colt Cabana but that's personal preference there.

[Smartmark]

^^ When I refer to REAL WRESTLING, I mean wrestlers who can pull off more than a couple of moves.

I agree with your statement on the ROH title. Put it on Hero or Cabana!!!

[Travicity]

Nope that was mcmahon that changed it to that and it's always been wrestling to some people but not to alot of cool aid drinkers. I dont really care if ROH went tbh not anymore but they're a wrestling company and are a great one if they did die they proving that people dont want good wrestling.

Hero defiently I agree he's been loyal and can wrestle every style and has won many titles can play the face or heel great been in many companies he should be the next champ.

[CarnivoreJ]

Great wrestlers are more than just a varied moveset. Also many of WWE's roster CAN pull off a lot more moves than they do, but they are limited by the management, CM Punk being a shining example.

Also TNA wrestlers often use wide and varied movesets, for instance the Dinero vs Wolfe match at Genesis, and the matches with Styles and Angle...I think there may be some bias against TNA in the conversation here, and I know why, but I think you should just give it up and watch TNA again.

And to Travis, it was NOT McMahon that brought in storylines. In fact storylines hve played a big part in wrestling since it started being televised. Go watch the Flair/Harley Race feud from the eighties...that was a storyline. In fact NWA used a lot of storylines. Vince shifted the focus to more cartoon-like characters, and he certainly ruined many great talents with his silly gimmicks...but he did more to make it like a comic book, it was a soap opera long before Vince Jr. got ahold of it. If you disagree I dare you to try and prove it.

[Travicity]

Not quite sure who you are but still I know that there were storylines around obviously they're were. But Vince did ridiculous storylines and angles death angles and apparently cancer and incest angles why do that when you could do a Race/Flair normal storyline. But he even said he took it from the Rasslin of men watching it basically made it pg and sports entertainment that's what I don't like about it.

[Kenpachi Zaraki]

well you need storylines to bring people in othewise amateur wrestling would have been massive thats what makes pro wrestling what it is. As for incest etc I am surprise you say that because ur the one who loved ECW

[Smartmark]

^^ What have incest to do with ECW??

And you are wrong. Wrestling doesn't need storylines to draw people. And have you ever been to a the olympics? There are quite many people who watches olympic wrestling dude!

[CarnivoreJ]

Not quite sure who you are but still I know that there were storylines around obviously they're were. But Vince did ridiculous storylines and angles death angles and apparently cancer and incest angles why do that when you could do a Race/Flair normal storyline. But he even said he took it from the Rasslin of men watching it basically made it pg and sports entertainment that's what I don't like about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I saw in another forum that your favorite era of wrestling was the Attitude era? And if Bergkamp is right you loved the original ECW...there haven't been that many trashy and ridiculous storylines, like incest, necrophilia, pregnancy, etc. since that era of wrestling and it was mostly started by Paul Heyman. It would be somewhat ridiculous to say you hate the soap opera drama of the WWE now if you loved the storylines of that era of wrestling.

Also what about the Dusty Rhodes/Tully Blanchard feud over Babydoll...that was a lot like a soap opera...not Vince. We could delve deeply into past wrestling storylines I'm just pointing out the fallacy in the logic that Vince created soap opera like drama in the wrestling world. I will reiterate the fact that I think he did ruin good professional wrestling with his cartoon character kid-friendly gimmicks. He took a lot of awesome performers from the AWA, UWF (or Mid-South), NWA, and many other regional promotions and turned them into caricatures that were barely watchable by the legit fan. But on the flip-side of that he made it main stream and is probably the sole reason wrestling is still such a force today...so I can't really hate a man for his obvious mistakes when he has preserved the form of entertainment I enjoy the most.

and I am just a newbie. I found this site through someones signature banner on another forum.

[Travicity]

I didnt love the original ECW and yes I did like the WWF Attitude era and can't mention other places here. I don't like ECW really no and I think I may know you but what annoy's me about him is the face he calls it sports entertainment. He calls them Diva's and Superstar's they barely mention the world wrestling except for there Initial. It's like they cheated there way to the top calling it something else and I don't mind the average storyline now and then. Just that i'm a fan of the in ring action rather than the other stuff. I mean 15 minutes of wrestling on a 2 hour show? Storylines like Hornswoggle/Chavo is jsut the lowest form of entertainment. Vince doing an angle of himself dying your telling me they can't do anything else. Giving away money for ratings?

But i only watch some tna and wwe not a diehard fan im happy with just the in ring pro wrestling that I watch elsewhere that I don't get much on tv and im fine about it. But back then in the attitude era that was really only the thing I knew about at that point so you could say I was dumb and fine with it all but as time went along found other places and became a fan of in ring action insetad of everything else. But anyway can we now argue and anyway welcome to the forum.

[CarnivoreJ]

Well thanks for the welcome, and I don't think we disagree too much, except that I enjoy WWE a lot despite some of the silliness. And I am not as jaded about the in ring product they do produce.

[Travicity]

Well it's a shame it couldnt be a little more wrestling then I would pick Vince over TNA lol and there's storyline's as of late arent that bad regardless of some of there champions.