Wrestlers That's Better Than Cena

[CarnivoreJ]

Big Evil where have you been all my life. I was sure there weren't any people who thought rationally about wrestling and here you are.

I personally do not enjoy Cena that much. The reason I don't enjoy him is not because he is a "bad wrestler" because what we are talking about here is-- a person who is professionally trained to make a match interesting and compelling by utilizing his natural charisma, natural athletic ability, and timing to help me suspend disbelief and get into a wrestling match.With my definition of a Professional Wrestler on the books, I go through long spells where I find myself really not getting into a Cena match, and I think it is because he is often booked like Superman. So I don't think he is a poor wrestler I just think they book him too damn strong sometimes and half the guys he faces aren't believable competitors.

Now with that in account Cena has had some great matches with Shawn Michaels, HHH, Kurt Angle, Orton, and a handful of other guys because it was compelling and I believed either guy could win. Cena knows how to work a match, and according to all the old timers in WWE he is constantly asking how he can improve, what more can you ask for? The guy is a mega star who has had a bunch of good to great matches and he knows how to work a crowd...good wrestler in my opinion.

I would like to see a point by point reasoning as to your hatred for Cena because I think it is unwarranted. If we are talking talent here I'd say Cena is way more talented than a good portion of your list up there.

Some of your list up there get by because they utilize exciting moves but they just kind of throw them out there without a thought as to timing or psychology and I just don't think that is talent. Being able to successfully pull off a dangerous move does not a great wrestler make.

[The Ultimate Fighter]

Y=Yes I agree, if i dont agree I'll put a small bracket and explain why

1. AJ Styles (A)
2. Christopher Daniels (A)
3. Jay Briscoe (no, overrated, Briscoes can work but still wouldn't say they are leaps and bounds above Cena)
4. Mark Briscoe (see above)
5. Kevin Steen (A)
6. PAC (havent seen really)
7. El Generico (no)
8. Jack Evans (disagree)
9. Shawn Michaels (A)
10. John Morrison (A)
11. Matt Sydal (Evan Bourne) (A)
12. Alex Shelley (A)
13. Chris Sabin (A)
14. Low Ki (A)
15. KENTA (A)
15. Amazing Red (spotamania here)
16. Bryan Danielson (A)
17. Nigel McGuiness (A)
18. Cm Punk (A)
19. Edge (A)
20. Chris Hero (A)
21. Chris Jericho (A)
22. Christian Cage (A)
23. Homicide (overrated)
24. Doug Williams (A)
25. Naomichi Marufuji (havent seen)
26. Go Shiozaki (havent seen)
27. Hernandez (no, he isnt that great)
28. James Gibson (A)
29. Charlie Haas (A)
30. Jay Lethal (A)
31. Jigsaw (no)
32. Jimmy Rave (havent seen his indy work to judge)
33. Jody Fleisch (havent seen)
34. Matt Cross (havent seen)
35. Paul London (A)
36. Brian Kendrick (A)
37. Rob Van Dam (A)
38. Sting (A)
39. Triple H (A)
40. Samoa Joe (joe is lazy now)
41. Sonjay Dutt (A)
42. Takeshi Morishima (A)
43. Great Muta (A)
44. Jeff Hardy (hmmmm, probably not)
45. Matt Hardy (A)
46. Jushin Liger (A)
47. Kenta Kobashi (A)
48. Kota Ibushi (A)
49. Mike Quackenbush (never really seen)
50. Teddy Hart (botchomania here)
51. Jimmy Jacobs (A)
52. Colt Cabana (A)
52. Tyler Black (A)
53. Roderick Strong (A)
54. Austin Aries (A)
55. Mick Foley (thats just being a mark there, foley can't wrestle at all)
56. Joey Ryan (not really seen him)
57. Rey Mysterio (A)
58. Ken Anderson (A)
59. Randy Orton (A)
60. Kurt Angle (A)
61. Chavo Guerrero (A)
62. Davey Richards (A)
63. Claudio Castagnoli (A)
64. Jimmy Yang (A)
65. Matt Jackson (A)
66. Nick Jakson (A)
67. Puma (havent really seen him)
68. Scorpio Sky (dont know)
69. Luke Hawx (dont know)
70. Elijah Burke (A)
71. Stevie Richards (not really)
72. Naruki Doi (never watced)
73. Super Dragon (never watched)
74. Delirious (please...he's worse than Cena)
75. Masato Yoshino (A)
76. Ryo Saito (dont know)
77. Dragon Kid (dont know)
78. Genki Horiguchi (dont know him)
79. Jack Swagger (A)
80. Carlito (A)
81. Undertaker (A)
82. Shelton Benjamin (A)
83. Frankkie Kazarian (A)
84. Ophidian (dont know him)
85. Amasis (dont know him)
86. Player Dos (never watched)
87. Player Uno (never watched)
88. Shane Matthews (nw)
89. Jagged (nw)
90. Drake Younger (overrated)
91. Bubbah Rey Dudley (:lmao: :rofl: you cant be serious)
92. D-Von Dudley (see above)
93. Human Tornado (A)
94. Rocky Romero (A)
95. Brent Albright (A)
96. Kaos (havent really watced)
97. Disco Machine (dont know him)
98. La Parka (A)
99. Super Crazy (A)
100. Juventud Garrera (A)


you gave a few unknowns and people I haven't seen so I can't judge that well, but thats their own fault if they were so great like you say they would be in at least ROH/WWE/TNA. I counted 61 wrestlers better than cena, so Cena top 62 in this list is alright considering he 'can't wrestle'.

[Big Evil]

Thanks Carnivore I appreciate logical reasoning like that. The way you explained... I can see why you might not enjoy a Cena match. Like it or not, I am a Cena fan, but I'm not so much a mark that I can't agree that he is booked to be too strong. Taking away from his opponents ability and making them jobbers is not good for business. Rather, what's good for business is having a tough match, with pros and cons on both sides, all being exploited and going back-and-forth. That is the kind of match I want to see, and that is why Cena's good matches have such a high opinion. That being said, I'm not just a Cena fan and nothing else. I am an Orton fan, a Triple H and Michaels fan, and Undertaker fan (Obviously), and many others. I'm not a Cena mark but rather a wrestling fan that would rather enjoy the wresting matches and not tear them apart. What is it saying about the wrestlers Cena faces when they can be beaten with four or five moves each match? The hatred for the man is undeserving imo and that's why I defend him. You don't have to like him because others do, but you don't need to hate him based on weak reasoning either.

[muzi]

Cena's AA is nothing more than a kind of a bodyslam - but also a botched bodyslam could kill you (or even hurt you so bad that you are out for months..).

He improved as a wrestler, one has to admit that. But his promos were better back when he had the rapper gimmick...anyway

The most talented wrestlers do not carry the industry, except HBK and Bret Hart or The Rock.

Is Shelton Benjamin a main event champion? Or Chavo Guerrero?

CM Punk is not bad. Jack Swagger, Legacy and Dolph Ziggler have to take the next two steps and then they are the big stars of the future...

[Smartmark]

Y=Yes I agree, if i dont agree I'll put a small bracket and explain why

1. AJ Styles (A)
2. Christopher Daniels (A)
3. Jay Briscoe (no, overrated, Briscoes can work but still wouldn't say they are leaps and bounds above Cena)
4. Mark Briscoe (see above)
5. Kevin Steen (A)
6. PAC (havent seen really)
7. El Generico (no)
8. Jack Evans (disagree)
9. Shawn Michaels (A)
10. John Morrison (A)
11. Matt Sydal (Evan Bourne) (A)
12. Alex Shelley (A)
13. Chris Sabin (A)
14. Low Ki (A)
15. KENTA (A)
15. Amazing Red (spotamania here)
16. Bryan Danielson (A)
17. Nigel McGuiness (A)
18. Cm Punk (A)
19. Edge (A)
20. Chris Hero (A)
21. Chris Jericho (A)
22. Christian Cage (A)
23. Homicide (overrated)
24. Doug Williams (A)
25. Naomichi Marufuji (havent seen)
26. Go Shiozaki (havent seen)
27. Hernandez (no, he isnt that great)
28. James Gibson (A)
29. Charlie Haas (A)
30. Jay Lethal (A)
31. Jigsaw (no)
32. Jimmy Rave (havent seen his indy work to judge)
33. Jody Fleisch (havent seen)
34. Matt Cross (havent seen)
35. Paul London (A)
36. Brian Kendrick (A)
37. Rob Van Dam (A)
38. Sting (A)
39. Triple H (A)
40. Samoa Joe (joe is lazy now)
41. Sonjay Dutt (A)
42. Takeshi Morishima (A)
43. Great Muta (A)
44. Jeff Hardy (hmmmm, probably not)
45. Matt Hardy (A)
46. Jushin Liger (A)
47. Kenta Kobashi (A)
48. Kota Ibushi (A)
49. Mike Quackenbush (never really seen)
50. Teddy Hart (botchomania here)
51. Jimmy Jacobs (A)
52. Colt Cabana (A)
52. Tyler Black (A)
53. Roderick Strong (A)
54. Austin Aries (A)
55. Mick Foley (thats just being a mark there, foley can't wrestle at all)
56. Joey Ryan (not really seen him)
57. Rey Mysterio (A)
58. Ken Anderson (A)
59. Randy Orton (A)
60. Kurt Angle (A)
61. Chavo Guerrero (A)
62. Davey Richards (A)
63. Claudio Castagnoli (A)
64. Jimmy Yang (A)
65. Matt Jackson (A)
66. Nick Jakson (A)
67. Puma (havent really seen him)
68. Scorpio Sky (dont know)
69. Luke Hawx (dont know)
70. Elijah Burke (A)
71. Stevie Richards (not really)
72. Naruki Doi (never watced)
73. Super Dragon (never watched)
74. Delirious (please...he's worse than Cena)
75. Masato Yoshino (A)
76. Ryo Saito (dont know)
77. Dragon Kid (dont know)
78. Genki Horiguchi (dont know him)
79. Jack Swagger (A)
80. Carlito (A)
81. Undertaker (A)
82. Shelton Benjamin (A)
83. Frankkie Kazarian (A)
84. Ophidian (dont know him)
85. Amasis (dont know him)
86. Player Dos (never watched)
87. Player Uno (never watched)
88. Shane Matthews (nw)
89. Jagged (nw)
90. Drake Younger (overrated)
91. Bubbah Rey Dudley (:lmao: :rofl: you cant be serious)
92. D-Von Dudley (see above)
93. Human Tornado (A)
94. Rocky Romero (A)
95. Brent Albright (A)
96. Kaos (havent really watced)
97. Disco Machine (dont know him)
98. La Parka (A)
99. Super Crazy (A)
100. Juventud Garrera (A)


you gave a few unknowns and people I haven't seen so I can't judge that well, but thats their own fault if they were so great like you say they would be in at least ROH/WWE/TNA. I counted 61 wrestlers better than cena, so Cena top 62 in this list is alright considering he 'can't wrestle'.

Many of those you haven't heard of has wrestled for ROH/PWG/CHIKARA or still does.

[CarnivoreJ]

Cena's AA is nothing more than a kind of a bodyslam - but also a botched bodyslam could kill you (or even hurt you so bad that you are out for months..).

He improved as a wrestler, one has to admit that. But his promos were better back when he had the rapper gimmick...anyway

The most talented wrestlers do not carry the industry, except HBK and Bret Hart or The Rock.

Is Shelton Benjamin a main event champion? Or Chavo Guerrero?

CM Punk is not bad. Jack Swagger, Legacy and Dolph Ziggler have to take the next two steps and then they are the big stars of the future...

You made a bunch of assertions. For instance the most talented wrestlers do not carry the industry. What does that statement mean? Carry the industry how? Are we talking monetarily carry? Carry in terms of workrate? What do you mean?

As far as Shelton Benjamin being a great wrestler I agree, but he is not as good as Cena. So he can pull out a flashy move or two he still can't work a crowd. He's been in the business for 10 years now and he can't work a singles match that gets the crowd interesting with someone not named HHH or HBK. The last great match he had (aside from his death defying stunts in MITB) was way back when Morrisson and Jeff Hardy were trading the IC title. I don't think he carries anything at all.

Chavo Guerrero is a joke. He is not only a joke because WWE made him one either. The guy is just not that great. He is certainly a mechanic he can get in the ring with anyone and have a decent match. But he looks awkward doing most of his current moveset. He knows what to do and often when to do it, but there is no way he is carrying wrestling in any form be it work rate (the guy wrestles 2 and 3 minute squash matches for the last year), monetarily (who really shows up to see Chavo ever much less these days, I'd say the closest he has come has been with Eddie as the crazy nephew in WCW or the Los Guerreros tag team in WWE), or otherwise.

Needless to say I think your assertion is assinine. What I think you are trying to say though may be valid. The mechanics (the awesome wrestlers who can have a technically brilliant match with anyone) are rarely your main event guys. Guys like Jericho, Benoit, Stunning Steve Austin (before the neck injury), Dean Malenko, Tazz, et. al. are guys with tons of wrestling ability they can do anything in the ring and they consistently have awesome matches that keep people talking, get passed over a lot of times for their flashier and more vibrant counterparts who, while they can put on a competent and compelling match and know how to work a crowd better, are not as technically skilled. Some of these guys transition into the flash (Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, and Steve Austin for example) while others never do but still find some level of success (Benoit) but still I would never say those guys are "carrying the WWE" rather they are offered an opportunity to ply their craft for bigger bucks because of the guy bringing in the average fan who may just become an avid fan.

[That Rob]

Few things here, if you like watching wrestling for wrestling, then don't watch WWE, because they're all about entertainment.

Secondly people bash Cena's in ring skills but I'm pretty sure he's pulled out quite a few classics, HBK and Cena on RAW in 2007, Cena and Edge and Backlash last year, just a few that come to mind, so yes he can wrestle, he's not the greatest but he's not the worst either.

Third, if some of these guys were better then Cena why aren't they on the TNA or WWE rosters? They must be lacking something, and the wrestling business is not about just wrestling and nobody does it better then Cena.

The guy is the first one in the gym each day and the last to leave, the first one to sign up for Make a Wish or anything else that the WWE might have in it's public relations, he's always willing to take a photo with fans and is an all around great guy. Stop your blind hate, get with the times as Cena bashing was fun back in 2007 but most of the IWC has moved on and it's about time you all did as well.

[muzi]

You made a bunch of assertions. For instance the most talented wrestlers do not carry the industry. What does that statement mean? Carry the industry how? Are we talking monetarily carry? Carry in terms of workrate? What do you mean?

You're right, I meant the most talented wrestlers are not the BIG Superstars and so carry the WWE in sense of main events, merch and ticket selling...

As far as Shelton Benjamin being a great wrestler I agree, but he is not as good as Cena. So he can pull out a flashy move or two he still can't work a crowd. He's been in the business for 10 years now and he can't work a singles match that gets the crowd interesting with someone not named HHH or HBK. The last great match he had (aside from his death defying stunts in MITB) was way back when Morrisson and Jeff Hardy were trading the IC title. I don't think he carries anything at all.

Benjamins ability is out of question. But he is a no seller because a) WWE didn't give him really useful storylines or moments and b) he is not as able to get the crowd into as e.g. a Stone Cold...but he could do better. And, in my personal opinion, he resignated because of his own bad attitude (or call it a lack of ambitiousness), bad WWE creative, and what ever...

Chavo Guerrero is a joke. He is not only a joke because WWE made him one either. The guy is just not that great. He is certainly a mechanic he can get in the ring with anyone and have a decent match. But he looks awkward doing most of his current moveset. He knows what to do and often when to do it, but there is no way he is carrying wrestling in any form be it work rate (the guy wrestles 2 and 3 minute squash matches for the last year), monetarily (who really shows up to see Chavo ever much less these days, I'd say the closest he has come has been with Eddie as the crazy nephew in WCW or the Los Guerreros tag team in WWE), or otherwise.

I think you underestimate him. I followed his matches in WCW and he had great ones...he would kick ass in the Cruiserweight Division along with Evan Bourne, Greg Helms, Yoshi Tatsu, Jimmy Wang etc. if WWE let them do their matches more or less on their own and not have ovestrained, nerved and bored writers.
Due to the fact that some of the talented Cruisers are gone and WWE doesn't give these people the platform to shine (not enough TV time, PG rated..), this is a sad fact.

An idea would be to have one extra show for the "middle weights"...that would be a great show! But financially seen, this is maybe not possible at these times..

Needless to say I think your assertion is assinine.

Thank you.

What I think you are trying to say though may be valid. The mechanics (the awesome wrestlers who can have a technically brilliant match with anyone) are rarely your main event guys.

Thats exactly what I meant.

Guys like Jericho, Benoit, Stunning Steve Austin (before the neck injury), Dean Malenko, Tazz, et. al. are guys with tons of wrestling ability they can do anything in the ring and they consistently have awesome matches that keep people talking, get passed over a lot of times for their flashier and more vibrant counterparts who, while they can put on a competent and compelling match and know how to work a crowd better, are not as technically skilled. Some of these guys transition into the flash (Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, and Steve Austin for example) while others never do but still find some level of success (Benoit) but still I would never say those guys are "carrying the WWE" rather they are offered an opportunity to ply their craft for bigger bucks because of the guy bringing in the average fan who may just become an avid fan.

I have the feeling that one does not have to be a talented wrestler anymore to be succesful in WWE, which is legit but sad/disappointing.
Some peolpe are great wrestlers and not such great entertainers and some are great entertainers but not wrestling talents...this is ok with me.

BUT: You have to have skills - don't forget you can injure people, you can even end somebody's career and change his/her life forever! example: Goldberg (not really a talent wrestling-wise but he connected with the crwod) ended Bret Harts (one of the best technical wrestlers and crowd favourite) career with one botched kick.

These accidents can happen any time, anywhere, anyone...nobody is immune to injure other wrestlers, if you have talent or not. But it's highly more likely that this happens a less talented wrestler than somebody who really is great wrestler...

All I say is, give the more talented people more time to shine, grow or train to some mic level because I want to see great matches along with great feuds in the self proclaimed biggest wrestling company in the world.

They claim to be the best, so you have to set the standards.

For me, that are the best trained wrestlers with the best character and gimmic.point.

[Big Evil]

Ya know its funny that this evolved from another Cena hater thread but I like that you guys have made some really good points in here. There are a lot of points made that prove what I'm trying to say and that is that there are a lot of wrestlers out there that can wrestle a hell of a match, but a lot more goes into it than ability. You have to be able to pull in the crowd and keep them entertained, having the charisma and knowing when to taunt or to do something that will surprise them. Cena has great mic skills, and I even preferred his rapper days over today. But what he brings to the table rounds out the whole experience and that is why I am a fan of him. He is a great guy outside of the ring, and it only makes sense to have him portray a Superman-like good guy. But sometimes you have to stray from that, I think Cena should go heel, he should reassert himself as a title chaser, aggressive and vicious as Triple H can be. This is a craft, an art form, and suspending belief is what they try to do. You don't have to play a good guy, and I know a lot of us wish he would be heel again. I vote for the turn.

[Smartmark]

Few things here, if you like watching wrestling for wrestling, then don't watch WWE, because they're all about entertainment.

Secondly people bash Cena's in ring skills but I'm pretty sure he's pulled out quite a few classics, HBK and Cena on RAW in 2007, Cena and Edge and Backlash last year, just a few that come to mind, so yes he can wrestle, he's not the greatest but he's not the worst either.

Third, if some of these guys were better then Cena why aren't they on the TNA or WWE rosters? They must be lacking something, and the wrestling business is not about just wrestling and nobody does it better then Cena.

The guy is the first one in the gym each day and the last to leave, the first one to sign up for Make a Wish or anything else that the WWE might have in it's public relations, he's always willing to take a photo with fans and is an all around great guy. Stop your blind hate, get with the times as Cena bashing was fun back in 2007 but most of the IWC has moved on and it's about time you all did as well.

Why the guys I listed aint in TNA or WWE? Some of them are if you read the list once more.
Besides, the other guys on the list wrestle in Japan and Mexico, and the 3 biggest indy companies in USA. And have you ever thought of this: They don't wrestle in WWE or TNA, because they don't want to be jobbers for Cena, to mention one.