RAW going to get better now?

[JohnCenaFan28]

Yea, all those guys will get pushes, then Cena will come back and make them all look like idiots. I probably wouldn't hate Cena as much as i do if he didn't always win. All of his matches are so predictable its scary, he gets beat down for the majority of the match, then BOOM! Five moves of doom, and Cena wins. Without Cena on Raw, things will be better entertainent wise imo,but bad for business.

Exactly what I was thinking. RAW was really good last night, but according to ratings it didn't do too well...

[tommy]

To me, last night's RAW was MUCH better than any RAW I saw when Cena was WWE Champion. I was actually surprised and impressed by the WHOLE show and not just parts like I normally am. If Cena didn't speak on RAW last night, it would have been perfect. Someone tell me I am wrong...

You are wrong. Last night's RAW was good, but it wasn't the best RAW I've see in a long time. We all walked away loving it because of the great ending with HBK's return, but that's just one part. Cena talking was great last night. He's injured, and he STILL comes back and manages to make both Triple H and Orton look better just by talking about them, meanwhile still making everyone laugh. The only other really good part about RAW was Kennedy vs. Jeff Hardy, and that's happened before as well.

Other than that, what happened? Crap diva fight? A handicap against Triple H with Umaga in it (first of all, really stupid to put him in four hard matches in 24 hours, second anything with Umaga in it sucks). Let's not forget Vince...he was in there a lot. Does that make for good tv for you?

I get you don't like Cena. Your an idiot, and completely unreasonable about it, but I get it. I don't get why you are going above and beyond to trash Cena. At least all the other Cena haters can respect him for what he's done for the company. Your just ignorant.

[JohnCenaFan28]

You are wrong. Last night's RAW was good, but it wasn't the best RAW I've see in a long time. We all walked away loving it because of the great ending with HBK's return, but that's just one part. Cena talking was great last night. He's injured, and he STILL comes back and manages to make both Triple H and Orton look better just by talking about them, meanwhile still making everyone laugh. The only other really good part about RAW was Kennedy vs. Jeff Hardy, and that's happened before as well.

Other than that, what happened? Crap diva fight? A handicap against Triple H with Umaga in it (first of all, really stupid to put him in four hard matches in 24 hours, second anything with Umaga in it sucks). Let's not forget Vince...he was in there a lot. Does that make for good tv for you?

I get you don't like Cena. Your an idiot, and completely unreasonable about it, but I get it. I don't get why you are going above and beyond to trash Cena. At least all the other Cena haters can respect him for what he's done for the company. Your just ignorant.

The diva match was NOT crap, Umaga is decent and Vince is always on RAW a lot... I respect all his hard work but IMO Cena does NOT deserve to be where he is at and if anyone else who people know is better than Cena were given the chance and push that Cena was given, they would be MUCH more liked and talented than Cena is. Cena could possibly get my full respect someday, but that day is very far to me.

[tommy]

The diva match was NOT crap, Umaga is decent and Vince is always on RAW a lot... I respect all his hard work but IMO Cena does NOT deserve to be where he is at and if anyone else who people know is better than Cena were given the chance and push that Cena was given, they would be MUCH more liked and talented than Cena is. Cena could possibly get my full respect someday, but that day is very far to me.

Cena DOES deserve to be where he was. There are few others who put in the same amount of passion or work into everything they do in the WWE. I'm not saying there aren't others...there are. And they are all main event: Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Edge, Undertaker. Cena is a good wrestler, great at cutting promos, and will do everything he can to make the company better. To me, that screams "deserves to be at the top".

[Will]

Cena DOES deserve to be where he was. There are few others who put in the same amount of passion or work into everything they do in the WWE. I'm not saying there aren't others...there are. And they are all main event: Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Edge, Undertaker. Cena is a good wrestler, great at cutting promos, and will do everything he can to make the company better. To me, that screams "deserves to be at the top".

Michaels, Triple H, Edge and Undertaker all put in the same amount of work and passion as Cena? Michaels can still be great when he wants to be, which doesn't seem to be his goal anymore. HHH was great, 5 years ago, undertaker is an old has been that wrestles once a month and edge is a midcarder at best but got a shot at the big times when he had an affair.

[JohnCenaFan28]

Cena DOES deserve to be where he was. There are few others who put in the same amount of passion or work into everything they do in the WWE. I'm not saying there aren't others...there are. And they are all main event: Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Edge, Undertaker. Cena is a good wrestler, great at cutting promos, and will do everything he can to make the company better. To me, that screams "deserves to be at the top".

Everything you said there makes sense EXCEPT that Cena is a good wrestler. I don't know if something is wrong with my vision or my TV but everytime I see Cena in a match, the other person has to pull Cena and then Cena picks a good time to implement the moves that will get the crowd going... I admit I have seen a VERY FEW matches that I have seen Cena do fairly well in, so that leads me to believe that he can wrestle or at least has the potential to...

[tommy]

Everything you said there makes sense EXCEPT that Cena is a good wrestler. I don't know if something is wrong with my vision or my TV but everytime I see Cena in a match, the other person has to pull Cena and then Cena picks a good time to implement the moves that will get the crowd going... I admit I have seen a VERY FEW matches that I have seen Cena do fairly well in, so that leads me to believe that he can wrestle or at least has the potential to...

I suggest you go watch some of the following matches:
-ANY Cena vs Edge match
-Cena vs Michaels 1 and 2 (wrestlemania 23 and RAW)
-Cena vs Bobby Lashley (GAB 2007)
-Cena vs Orton 1 (2 had the crap ending, and 3 never happened)
-Cena vs Triple H (WM 22)
-Compare Cena vs Khali to any Batista vs Khali, Cena carries Khali fairly well, given the cirumstances. Same goes for Cena vs Umaga compared to the Bobby Lashley vs Umaga fights.


Those are all just off the top of my head. Cena isn't the best wrestler, but he's a good wrestler. He isn't carried through all those matches either, he brings a lot to them.

[XXKSXX]

I have to agree with tommy Cena isn't the best wrestler but he is a good wrestler.

Some people watch wrestling but truthfully are they actually watching the match or just watching?

[JohnCenaFan28]

I suggest you go watch some of the following matches:
-ANY Cena vs Edge match
-Cena vs Michaels 1 and 2 (wrestlemania 23 and RAW)
-Cena vs Bobby Lashley (GAB 2007)
-Cena vs Orton 1 (2 had the crap ending, and 3 never happened)
-Cena vs Triple H (WM 22)
-Compare Cena vs Khali to any Batista vs Khali, Cena carries Khali fairly well, given the cirumstances. Same goes for Cena vs Umaga compared to the Bobby Lashley vs Umaga fights.


Those are all just off the top of my head. Cena isn't the best wrestler, but he's a good wrestler. He isn't carried through all those matches either, he brings a lot to them.

I've seen most of them and I would have to say those are the only near-good/good ones. Three of them utilizing superior superstars(Edge, HBK and HHH) and those being the only good ones, while the Lashley and Khali ones were trash IMO(though Cena did a better job with Khali than Batista) and the Cena vs Umaga matches were better than the Lashley vs Umaga ones mainly I guess because they were flooded with McMahons/bad stipulations on the side. The HBK vs Cena at WM23 was good only because of HBK but the one the night after was one of the best matches I have ever seen. I know Cena has had "some" good matches but why should a person who only has "some" good matches be so hyped and praised by being WWE Champion for more than a year while others who continually put on good matches are not? Trust me, if Cena were given like an extra year or so in mid-card before going ME I would probably like him more and he'd probably have been able to hone his wrestling skills.

[Will]

Trust me, if Cena were given like an extra year or so in mid-card before going ME I would probably like him more and he'd probably have been able to hone his wrestling skills.

An extra year or so? It took him 4 years to win the title. Don't let your thoughts of his recent reigns cloud your judgment into thinking he was another guy like Goldberg, Lesnar or Angle that was practically given the title on his debut.

[tommy]

I've seen most of them and I would have to say those are the only near-good/good ones. Three of them utilizing superior superstars(Edge, HBK and HHH) and those being the only good ones, while the Lashley and Khali ones were trash IMO(though Cena did a better job with Khali than Batista) and the Cena vs Umaga matches were better than the Lashley vs Umaga ones mainly I guess because they were flooded with McMahons/bad stipulations on the side. The HBK vs Cena at WM23 was good only because of HBK but the one the night after was one of the best matches I have ever seen. I know Cena has had "some" good matches but why should a person who only has "some" good matches be so hyped and praised by being WWE Champion for more than a year while others who continually put on good matches are not? Trust me, if Cena were given like an extra year or so in mid-card before going ME I would probably like him more and he'd probably have been able to hone his wrestling skills.

Just because there was another good wrestler in the match does NOT mean that Cena was carried. That seems to be what your doing. You assume Cena is a crap wrestler, so natrually, even though there is no proof that it went down like that, you say that Cena was carried. Someone being carried in a match does not make for a good match. It's obvious, it's painful to watch. Undertaker carried Khali though a fight, but it was still bad. That is what it means to be carried: it's noticably bad, but it's better than the person's normal fights. That is not what happened in any of those Cena fights, with the exception of CENA carrying Khali.

[JohnCenaFan28]

All I know is that I'd like for the WWE Champion to have a more diverse movelist, be able to sell moves and NOT botch moves constantly. If Cena had 5 more moves then I'd be more accepting of Cena, if Cena could sell moves I'd be more accepting of Cena and if he didn't mess up his moves constantly or just do them badly then have people cover it up by calling them "modified" then I'd be more accepting. If 4 years resulted in him still doing the crap Cena does most of the time, then I'd say he would need another year or so to get a little better...

[tommy]

All I know is that I'd like for the WWE Champion to have a more diverse movelist, be able to sell moves and NOT botch moves constantly. If Cena had 5 more moves then I'd be more accepting of Cena, if Cena could sell moves I'd be more accepting of Cena and if he didn't mess up his moves constantly or just do them badly then have people cover it up by calling them "modified" then I'd be more accepting. If 4 years resulted in him still doing the crap Cena does most of the time, then I'd say he would need another year or so to get a little better...

They don't call his moves "modified" because he botches them. All of Cena's moves are variation moves. That's how his character is, he makes everything his own. Takes what the normal is and changes it to better fit himself. They have never once called a botched move a "modified" move during Cena's matches. As for not being able to sell moves, that's just not true. At times he has problems selling the effects off a fight, but he always sells the moves themselves well. And, for a moveset, Cena added several moves over this past year. People complained about the "Five moves of death", and he added a few more. Then people keep complaining, even after he has a more diverse set. What you people fail to realize is that VINCE and the WWE staff has final say on peoples movesets. I.E. Cm Punk was forced to pick up an entirely different fighting style upon entering WWE. It's not Cena's fault if he's not allowed to do the moves he can do.



EDIT: A little more than a week with the title, and Orton has already botched an RKO, his SIGNATURE move, and hurt Jeff Hardy.

http://www.uowforums.com/showthread.php?t=112968


Orton just proved that he is already a worse champion than Cena...and, according to your prefering to have a WWE Champion that does not botch moves, once in a week is a bad start for him, so, unless your a hypocrit, you should be anti-Orton now.

[wcwnitro2000]

i think raw ratings wont improve, maybe the product might, but alot of people watch wwe for john cena. its good hbk is back

[hbkizbest]

I think Raw rating must have to prove now i really enjoyed Raw in last few weeks so i would say Raw going better now.

[JohnCenaFan28]

They don't call his moves "modified" because he botches them. All of Cena's moves are variation moves. That's how his character is, he makes everything his own. Takes what the normal is and changes it to better fit himself. They have never once called a botched move a "modified" move during Cena's matches. As for not being able to sell moves, that's just not true. At times he has problems selling the effects off a fight, but he always sells the moves themselves well. And, for a moveset, Cena added several moves over this past year. People complained about the "Five moves of death", and he added a few more. Then people keep complaining, even after he has a more diverse set. What you people fail to realize is that VINCE and the WWE staff has final say on peoples movesets. I.E. Cm Punk was forced to pick up an entirely different fighting style upon entering WWE. It's not Cena's fault if he's not allowed to do the moves he can do.



EDIT: A little more than a week with the title, and Orton has already botched an RKO, his SIGNATURE move, and hurt Jeff Hardy.

http://www.uowforums.com/showthread.php?t=112968


Orton just proved that he is already a worse champion than Cena...and, according to your prefering to have a WWE Champion that does not botch moves, once in a week is a bad start for him, so, unless your a hypocrit, you should be anti-Orton now.

You're right, I am upset at how Orton is behaving as WWE Champion. He now has the main event people doing stuff in the middle of the show, botching moves, generally having the crowd not too excited or give a heated response like Edge does etc. And right now, I'm going to say that Cena IS a better champion that Orton but Cena is still not a good in my book for WWE Championship.

[SIGMA]

hey i like john cena

[bigdaddybaughman]

all of you anti-Cena fans out there have been saying give it to orton he's so much better now he has the championship and it is turning in to a joke of a title reign just like hid first one. One thing you have to remeber when complaning about the top guy is he has all the stress of geting ready each night and he has to carry the company and few recently have been a great sucesses at that and Cena is one of them. He made the money and didn't bitch about time off he proformed constantly, made a move, did online stuff for his fan, made tv apperaces on other shows and sold shows. As for raw Orton can't carry it and I think he has a lot of talent but it takes more than that to be the top superstar. Some yunger talent should get pushes. Lets just hope they can step up more than just their game

[XXKSXX]

^ Also u for got to add, Cena would still be doing all that if he didn't get injured and possible still champ.

[Save_Us.Y2J]

After reading bits of this lengthy thread that took my noticed i have a few things to say:

1) MVP will never be in a WWE Film lmao. That would be worse than the Condemned and the Marine put together and that's saying something.

2) Cena's technical abilities are acceptable but i mean it felt like he was champion for 2 decades and not years. Every match the other guy (whether big guys like Khali, Umaga or similarly styled guys like Michaels and Edge) would carry Cena through the whole match and then he would come back at the end with his 5 moves of death and that would be it. He is overall a fantastic asset for WWE (taking into account the merchandising sales and mike work + the obvious ratings) but it was just the title reign and it's length that got to me.

3) ECW is the worst wrestling brand of all time. KILLED is the word that comes to mind and McMahon should be doing time for that mistake. It has just turned into a jazzed up form of OVW.